I’m an introvert and I like going to work to do my job and go home. I don’t understand people who use a job as a substitute for friendship or marriage. It’s a means to an end.
The sooner I do my duties, the longer my downtime is going to be, and I love having my downtime.
Many of my colleagues see me and immediately start asking questions I don’t want to answer, but neither do I want to hurt their feelings, I mostly want to be left alone. In the past this has been deconstructed as arrogance and people with fragile egos feel insulted by my indifference to them and that I prefer to work than to talk to them.
The world is made by extroverts. I have observed that people are eager to help you if you give them attention. I don’t get it, but neither I’m not going to change how extroverts think or feel.
If I give them the attention they need for as long as they need it I’m going to end up with daily headaches and neither my job nor theirs is going to be done.
I want to appear approachable, but keeping the info I feed them to a minimum. How do I do that?
What do you talk about to your coworkers?
What do you say to stop conversation organically? (meaning they don’t get offended).
It doesn’t sound like you need any help getting people to not talk to you, but I think making you not appear to be an asshole might be beyond the scope of a lemmy post.
then don’t post.
oh, and happy downvoting
Being an introvert isn’t an excuse for being an asshole. If that’s who you are then just be the office asshole. Why do you care what they think?
there’s no need to insult. calm down.
A well placed label is no insult.
whatever you want to believe so you sleep quiet at night
Well, you’re convinced that the whole world is against you, so I’m sure you don’t sleep.
I won’t retype my last post.
Most people really aren’t that interested in you, they just expect a certain level of acknowledgement. You don’t have to be entertaining, just ask a few basic questions like ‘How’s the family?’ or ‘Big plans for the holiday?’
You’re probably spending more time trying to stay away from people then you’d have to spend actually interacting with them.
But if you absolutely refuse to talk to people, just keep a clipboard with you all the time. If they come over pretend you’re taking notes.
That’s exactly it. I think one of the reason many people who struggle with small talk is because they take these conversations at face value. It doesn’t matter if you don’t care about how their family is doing, you’re not asking because you want the information. You’re asking because the question itself means “I respect you as a peer and am showing interest in you”.
And it’s also why the answers don’t generally matter. They don’t care what you’re really doing for your holidays, just give a simple but positive response “just looking forward to getting some rest!”, “going to see my family”. If you show you’re interested in them, and you respond to their questions that’s enough for most people. Even if those questions and answers are completely vacuous.
Also, if you do engage with people, you’re more likely to find the ones you actually have something in common with.
I think one of the reason many people who struggle with small talk is because they take these conversations at face value.
The thing that bugs me the most about people is that they can’t just say what they want or do the things that clearly convey what they want most of the time. The main approach to social interaction is testing people to find out if other people match whatever they were taught was the ‘right’ way to do things and then judging the shit out of anyone who slightly strays from that expectation.
have my upvote.
This is why I like choosing my friends. This is why I keep most of my coworkers away, because they act like mean 15 year old girls.
Interesting that “hello, how was your weekend” and listening to a 10 second answer has such a high emotional cost for you. And this comment is from an introvert.
but they bore me, at least 50% of them.
Do you do that 10 second ritual with all your coworkers? because they interpret it as an invitation to endlessly talk about things I don’t care and it’s so tiring.
I could tolerate it if it was limited to 10 seconds, but they never stop. Why do they need so much attention?
Yes. Most people don’t have the awareness of a lot of what’s been said in the comments or they suspend it in their daily lives. They do what they feel is right and since most were socialised in a similar way the signal-response expectations match. Then a certain rapport can be formed by the empty interactions borne out of the semi-conscious feeling that it’s “right” or “nice” to initiate a small talk and respond to it in kind. In this way indeed most of us are like 15 yo girls, just somewhat more serious and self-controlled.
If I were in a condescensing mood I’d say humans generally are bots following Pavlov’s reaction patterns imprinted during upbringing. But this would be a severe oversimplification and a little a-hole talking through me.
Thanks for that, never thought of it that way.
wait, so all those who excel at useless and senseless small talk neither care about the information?
I appreciate your post, because it explains a lot, but if it’s true people are so easy to manipulate.
I don’t understand the point of asking for information to ignore it but if this is the way to have more job options I guess I’ll have to fake it?
Im asking to wfh.
It’s not a waste of time. It builds a background relationship which you can then leverage to get things done. It is social capital. Negotiation lubricant.
Yes, fake it. It will be valuable when you need a favor, or information, or even when you want to ask your boss for a raise.
It will be valuable when you need a favor, or information, or even when you want to ask your boss for a raise.
has this really worked for you? Bosses are impersonal, their only aim is to maximize benefits. Giving me a raise contradicts that.
Most people act emotionally, not rationally.
When you find an autistic boss, they’ll appreciate your silence and logic, until then, play the game.
You realize that your pay isn’t coming out of your bosses pocket, unless you work for a very tiny company.
but if its true people are easy to manipulate.
That is not the correct way to think about that. They are evaluating you, too. Humans are social animals. Your interactions will determine where you stand in the social hierarchy.
Like others have said, it is useful. Its useful I know the names of my bosses children, maybe even when their birthdays are. People like it when you remember details about them, and it also helps you understand them more which can lead to better workflows.
Works every time!
It sounds from your post and your replies here that you resent people trying to be friendly.
Typical jobs pay for your time, not your work product (which is an entirely separate conversation) and it would be mind numbing to try to work straight for 8 hours at a time. Workers are expected to take breaks, and humans are social creatures. Knowing a little bit about the person next to you fosters trust and empathy, two things that encourage cooperation and productivity.
If you care about your coworker, you will help them when they ask. If you care about all of your coworkers, you’ll work harder for the company that employs all of you. This is a fundamental aspect of the employer/employee relationship.
It also helps pass the time. Pleasant social interactions are fun and entertaining for most people. A lot of people also know how it feels to be left out, and try to include outsiders if they think someone might be feeling lonely.
Conversely, working next to someone cam be m pop liserable and distracting when that person is a mystery, is silent or unpleasant, or somehow makes people feel uncomfortable.
Your coworkers are showing an interes in you because they want to make their day more bearable and also make you to feel included. If you don’t like it, you should say so and explain yourself. Chances are, they will understand that you don’t enjoy social interactions and leave you alone without creating any animosity. Most people understand what an introvert is. “I don’t like talking about myself,” is a perfectly reasonable thing to say.
“You talking to me keeps me here longer than I want to be,” is rude, arrogant, and will make people actively dislike you.
Recognize that their interest in you is a kindness, at least from their perspective, and to treat it like a burden is an insult.
and it would be mind numbing to try to work straight for 8 hours at a time.
absolutely, that’s why I don’t want to quit, because where I am there’s lots of downtime, more and longer if I finish my job fast.
It also helps pass the time. Pleasant social interactions are fun and entertaining for most people.
again, absolutely: pleasant, not faked, but apparently I’m gonna have to learn to fake it. I don’t care about who is dating who or what a daughter gave a mother for her birthday. Who cares?
A lot of people also know how it feels to be left out, and try to include outsiders if they think someone might be feeling lonely.
wow, I might have to explain to them they’re not excluding me when they don’t talk to me and that I actually prefer it.
“I don’t like talking about myself,” is a perfectly reasonable thing to say.
only that I’ve been bullied in my past for being an introvert and keeping to myself and I don’t have reasons to believe this time would be different. Each time I’ve opened up to people it’s been used to gossip against me and to hurt me. Are you an introvert?
Recognize that their interest in you is a kindness, at least from their perspective, and to treat it like a burden is an insult.
hard disagree, they’ll use it to gossip about me against me and to hurt me.
I’m however happy you’ve had an easy life.
This isn’t really an answer, but I managed to find a fully remote job with minimal meetings. I can engage with my coworkers over Teams chat, but most of the time we leave each other alone. I like everyone I work with, but like you I’m not looking for a friendship.
Just say “Sorry, I have some urgent work to do. We’ll talk later”. People don’t care, no one will think you’re an asshole. You can say it right after ‘hello’ or after quick exchange. I mostly avoid talking to people at work. I have my ANC headphones, sit at my desk and do my job/browse lemmy most of the time. But when people need help with something I do it fast and without needless bureaucracy so a lot of people know me as a reliable guy. After all it’s work. Be polite, be professional, do your job and you’ll be fine. And if you meet someone who’s fun to talk to have lunch with them from time to time.
This is good advice. Headphones can also work on another level as a signal that you’re getting stuff done and don’t want to be disturbed. Not all my colleagues get that but perhaps 9/10 do.
I have observed that people are eager to help you if you give them attention.
People that like you are more likely to help you. If you tell them to fuck off they’re not going to like you, and they’re not going to help you. And they make just make your life worse depending on how much of an ass you are. They’re probably trying to talk to you because they see you (presumably) looking miserable and want to be nice.
It’s a means to an end.
If that’s your only view of jobs you’ll probably never find one that will make you happy. Have you considered finding a different job that you’d actually enjoy? You’re much more likely to enjoy talking to your co workers when you’re surrounded by likeminded people.
If that’s your only view of jobs you’ll probably never find one that will make you happy.
in what fantasy land do you live where jobs are supposed to make you happy?
are you claiming your job makes you happy? Why don’t you do it for free?
Is your job your whole identity?
regarding your first paragraph, stop assuming.
are you claiming your job makes you happy? Why don’t you do it for free?
No, turn this around. Everyone needs a way to pay the bills. But there are lots of ways to pay them. Lots of different jobs.
Would you rather work at a job where you’re happy or where you’re miserable?
A lot of people find their jobs easier if they’re on friendly terms with their coworkers.
Please note, this is not the same as being close friends with your coworkers.
Would you rather work at a job where you’re happy or where you’re miserable?
I’d rather not work
Way to not answer the question
are you aware that people need money to pay bills or are you so privileged this is a foreign reality to you?
What are you talking about? YOU are the one who responded to the question “given you have to work, would you rather have a job you like or a job you hate” with the answer “I’d rather just not work”. I’m aware the vast majority, including myself, need to work. You’re the only one suggesting you wouldn’t work.
The guy who asked you the question was saying that the fact that we have to work is just that, a fact. So how are you going to make that fact more bearable? They were suggesting you should try to find work or a workplace that doesn’t leave you in dread of every work day, or at the very least finding a way to set boundaries at work or make peace with small talk being a part of your day. Those things are not always easy or feasible in the short term, but they’re saying that should be your goal.
So… Just quit your job, and problem solved.
on my way
OP showing his true colors, here.
I’m guessing a lot of repressed anger.
where did you major in psychology?
At a private American university.
A few years ago I was injured on the job and couldn’t work for a few months. While I was out someone suggested this book to me. "Discover What You Are Best At’ by Linda Gail.
I got the book and used it. It’s a series of self administered tests to see what areas you excel in. then there’s a list of jobs that use those skills. The book pointed me at a career I’d never considered. Turns out, having a job where you fit in makes your life a lot better.
I love my job. I am extremely passionate about my field of work and absolutely do things in the same field in my free time. I know many people who truly do what they love and love what they do. Maybe we’re just plain lucky or maybe we were about to make our passions profitable.
to make our passions profitable
And that’s the key. Not all passions are profitable. If people only did jobs to make money and hated it the entire time we’d have 0 teachers here in the US since we don’t pay them for shit. But we have teacher who love their job and are fine making less money because the joy of teaching kids makes up for it. It’s a balance of enjoyment and money. Unless you’re lucky and just really like something that pays a fuck ton.
in what fantasy land do you live where jobs are supposed to make you happy?
It’s not a fantasy, it’s my current job right now.
Why don’t you do it for free?
You could argue I do with all the overtime I do. Granted that overtime leads to getting more raises so I don’t know if that qualifies.
Is your job your whole identity?
The opposite, I made my hobbies my job. I love fucking around with computers so I got a job fucking around with computers.
Find a job you love, and find a job filled with people who will love you back. It’s not easy, but it’s not impossible either. You may need to move, you may need to go back to school. And worst of all, you may need to schmooze. Nepotism and cronyism gets jobs. Having a large network of people you associate with, and know what you want is probably the biggest key to getting the job of your dream.
You could argue I do with all the overtime I do.
how is that doing it for free?
I’m salaried. The amount of hours I work has no impact on the pay I get.
don’t you have a life out of work?
doesn’t it bother you to work all those hours for free?
why aren’t you somebody very easy to manipulate?
don’t you have a life out of work?
Yes. I don’t spend 80 hours a week on overtime it’s like 5 or 6 a week, maybe a bit more of I’m doing work in between down time doing other stuff.
why aren’t you somebody very easy to manipulate?
I don’t know exactly what you’re trying to say with that. Are you trying to say I’m being manipulated into working overtime? You could argue that to a degree, but I only do it when I feel like doing it, or there’s shit to be done. I get paid bonuses for meeting goals so I mostly work extra to make sure we hit those goals and get phat paychecks. It also gives me time to fuck around during the day when I’m bored and just want to fuck off.
The world is made by extroverts.
So do extroverts think, but introverts can definitely live their lives in a different way.
What do you say to stop conversation organically?
I just tell them that I have to go. It doesn’t have to be rude, that’s just the way life is. The intonation of your voice can change the perception of the message too
So do extroverts think, but introverts can definitely live their lives in a different way.
it should be so easy, but I’ve been bullied several times for being introverted, so I hope you understand my previous sentence.
Sorry to hear
Work is not high school. A few instances of you getting your phone and saying “Do you mind repeating that while I record you, so I can discuss with HR how you’re creating a hostile environment?” should at least curb some of those attempts at bullying.
Here’s a Midwestern trick for you. Find a lull in the conversation, then use the word “Welp!” and then press your lips together into that flat emoji face 😐. Generally that’s all you need to say to indicate, “regretfully, I need to move on from this interaction now”, and both parties can give their requisite goodbyes before dispersing. If that didn’t get the hint across, throw in a “Alright, well, I’m gonna let you get back to it”, which obviously sounds nicer than “you need to release me from the conversation chokehold you’ve got me in and let me get back to it”, but means the same thing. If they keep talking after that, then they’re the asshole and you can now directly shut down the conversation without the stigma. But don’t forget to apologize for needing to do something other than entertain them and ask their permission to do otherwise, and then thank them when they grant your reprieve. Something like, “Sorry, if it’s alright, I really need to buckle down on this. Can we chat later? Thank you!”
This submissive, conflict-avoidance, time-management solution technique is brought to you courtesy of generations of the painfully polite and non-confrontational interacting with the overly friendly and chatty that defines the culture and the history of the Midwest. In Indiana, that’s as much a daily fixture of our way of life as riding past corn fields stretched to the horizon, the joy of confirming from their license plate that the shitty driver is indeed a Buckeye, and a general obsession with basketball that borders on psychosis.
There’s a small number of surprisingly aggressive and unhelpful responses here. People are different and the world, especially the workplace, is made by extroverts and that can be difficult for those of us that are more introverted.
In an ideal world your colleagues would be mindful of that but unfortunately that’s often not the case (and of course extroverts often don’t engage in a whole lot of self reflection).
You’re going to have to put up with a bit of annoying small talk. Try to find something that’s a compromise you can live with. After that I’d say being polite but direct is best… nice chatting but I need to get back to work. No further elaboration is required.
You can also try telling some people that you’re not a big chatter or something and that you like to just get on with work. See how that goes, people are often more understanding than you would expect.
(I should say I live in the UK and work in a technical industry so YMMV).
and yet they wonder why I defend myself…
I’m an introvert too and I feel you, but if you work in an office, part of your work is having conversations, taking cofee with your workmates and such. As you have said, it helps getting help from them and getting favours.
Literally in an office work they pay you to do this bonding that allows you to do your work better. You are expected to take time to do that things. Think about it as if it is some task that you don’t like but is part of your job.
Answer their question with questions. If they ask about your weekend all about their’s then followup on a detail. They will talk for a couple minutes then end with some version of “hey great chat but I need to get a couple things done”. If you want to remain approachable you need to give people the chance to talk but also don’t really need to share much of yourself. Keep tabs on the easy things(kids, spouse, etc) and you have a lot of variations of very basic questions for a short conversation. How’s kid liking school? Did you and spouse have a nice weekend? Then one or two follow up questions to them and you can end the conversation without the other person feeling like you blew them off.
holy crap, this is some kind of next level Yoda tricks I don’t believe I’m capable enough to play
It’s not it’s just a little effort in remembering the couple major details of people you see frequently instead of feeling exhausted from the anxiety of being stuck in a conversation.
You probably don’t even need to remember much. Just asking how the kids are is enough, anything more specific than that is just a bonus.
I’m as vague and boring as possible when it comes to personal details in a professional context. I try not to talk about anything other than work related topics. I’m friendly, polite, and generally helpful towards my coworkers but I keep a solid wall between personal and professional so if it’s not work related I’m engaging at the bare minimum to avoid explicit rudeness and that’s about it.
Be friendly but super boring. Fuzzy gray rock.
As others have said, they just want to talk about themselves, humble brag, and make sure you’re not a “creep”. Best way is to let them get it out of their system…but bore them at the same time. More art than science, but with practice you’ll get it.
Example…
Them: “Doing any fun vacations this year?”
You: “Maybe the beach, not sure yet.”
Them: blah blah blah brag brag brag.
You: mmm-hmmmm
The key is lack of detail. Don’t give them anything solid to grab onto, e.g. “beach” not “Disney World”.
I talk about stuff that holds no interest to them.
“Okay, so the Tyranids are probably the biggest threat to the universe, but I’d argue that Nurgle is still in his prime. Now, if we take that at face value…”
