President-elect Donald Trump stunned the Pentagon and the broader defense world by nominating Fox News host Pete Hegseth to serve as his defense secretary, tapping someone largely inexperienced and untested on the global stage to take over the world’s largest and most powerful military.
A tiny sliver of hope.
I know the sorts of oaths I had to take when I was in the military. I didn’t really enjoy my time there and I still took them seriously.
Those folks at the Pentagon, I would hope, are the sort that take them very seriously. And it is your duty to refuse unlawful orders.
If there’s enough “good ones” left, we might see some resistance coming from that area.
What country did you serve for? AFAIK, the US is one of a handful of countries that don’t have a law stating that soldiers are obligated to refuse unlawful orders and to report those who gave those orders.
https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/law-and-life/what-is-a-military-duty-to-disobey/
Appreciate it, I remember reading many years ago that after WW2, most countries agreed to sign into law that soldiers were legally obligated to disobey unlawful orders and report the person who gave the order to their superiors, but that the US was one of the nations that didn’t.
But a quick search brings up nothing but articles talking about what you posted, so I can’t find any info on it. I wonder if in other countries it’s enshrined outside of military law, and that’s the distinction? I have no clue.
This is how we are checkmated into civil war OR Putin takeover.
Either we let Trump/Elon stay in office and Putin takes over that way. Before Jan 20, they will all be releasing increasingly inflammatory information to incite a civil war. If we don’t go to war, Putin will finish taking us over and will have access to our resources and military. With that he will literally take over the world.
Is this the same US military that killed a million Iraqis or are you thinking of some alternate different US military
You see killing americans is icky until they are “the enemy” and I dont think the military is dedicated to internal struggles since no one is a real threat to power.
This guy seemed to be campaigning on not prosecuting war criminals, so military lawyers might be the first ones with difficult decisions to make.
Ahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaa ahahahahahahahah hahahahahaaaaaaaahahaaaaaaaaaaa
I have a different hope, that Trump will ruin their actual offensive capacity and save the world from the Pentagon. The US can not be trusted with its own military.
But they protected me from all those menacing children in Laos that didn’t even know the USA existed!
I can’t wait until his son’s begin an arms manufacturing company and get hundreds of billions in defense contracts and then entire companies of troops get owned in war when their guns spontaneously explode in their face and the tanks rounds detonates prior to firing. Capitalist efficiency!
The US military will go to Putin. Can Putin be trusted with the US military?
You really need to stop watching Maddow, Morning Joe, and the other Russiagate conspiracy theorists, because this sounds about as unhinged as QAnon conspiracy theorists.
🤡
I’m not a fan of U.S. foreign policy. But as far as the military chain of command, it’s specifically designed to have it’s own checks and balances against abuse of power. Precisely what Trump is wanting to topple. So if the choice is an orange toddler or a robust and effective circle of generals, I’ll go with the generals thanks.
The same US military that promises to bomb The Hague if it is ever held accountable for crimes against humanity?
Those checks and balances didn’t stop them from butchering a million Iraqis.
An orange toddler breaks his toys. Fuck em
I don’t disagree, but that’s not really my point.
What you’re arguing is basically akin to people who sat out the vote because “Genocide Joe”. Which is what gave America Trump 2.0 in the first place. Yes, the established Military Complex is flawed and in some cases downright evil. But the response to that isn’t “fuck it, let’s burn it down and give a fucking toddler direct control of it.”
You don’t fix things by picking the worse option on purpose. That’s utter lunacy.
It’s not flawed, it’s been working exactly as it was intended our entire lives. Unless you were alive for WW2, the purpose of the military has been to spread misery and death. I’d call it one of the most evil institutions in the face of the Earth.
I’m not optimistic. Trump won’t be allowed to destroy the military. He will weaken it, though, and that can only be a good thing.
Hence, saving the world from the Pentagon.
Real 1930s Germany vibes coming out today
I’ve read a lot of stuff on the development of the military industrial complex in Germany and fascism’s relationship to it both while it was gaining power and had power and I’m not seeing any parallels, could you explain?
Fascism taking hold depends on a significant portion of people ignoring the threat it poses in its infancy. Saying Trump won’t do what he’s clearly trying to do, and even going so far as to say it might turn out to be a good thing, are both extremely bad ideas. Many Germans did not believe Hitler was the threat he turned out to be and as a consequence they did not react to his early actions as they would have had they known what was to come. Trump attempting to purge military leadership and install loyalists is an obvious example of an event that will come to be seen as a pivotal moment in history if we continue down this path we’re on.
That’s exactly what the electorate just did.
I fully agree
I don’t fail to appreciate your viewpoint, but while such a military exists, I’d like stopping 21st century Hitler before he can get started to be a service they provide.
Oh, so the US military should intervene in the Palestinian genocide on the side of Palestine, right? And then pay reparations to Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, and all the other places the US has slaughtered in the past 20 years alone.
21st century hitler? Who are we talking about, bush? Biden? Netenyahu?
The military is already struggling to recruit and moves like this will only delegitimize our military even more. I’m sure they’ll always be able to find goons to wield guns, but it will cease to be a respectable career path for all but the most right-wing citizenry.
It’s not all bad.
Ah yes, having a hollow military has worked so well throughout history
This can be improved by worsening working class conditions and increased jingoism, which will almost certainly happen.
Such as Hegseth?
That seems to be all he was when he was enlisted.
😂
I wouldn’t hold out too much hope. They’re also preparing to purge the military leadership:
https://www.rawstory.com/trump-generals/
I’ve been out a long time and was of low rank in any case. However, I’m skeptical that safeguards don’t exist that will make that less effective than it sounds. For one thing, the duty to disobey unlawful orders goes all the way to the lowest E1. But I am doubtful that Trump can successfully reach a point where all or even enough of the top brass are willing to drink his flavor aid to not have to worry about them.
History has shown that these are very seldom adhered to, and that adhering to them is a career-limiting—and even freedom-limiting—move. The whole War on Terror torture regime is just one example in the post-WWII era.
The orders aren’t unlawful though. Unlawful per who?
https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/law-and-life/what-is-a-military-duty-to-disobey/
They’re unlawful until the SCROTUS says they aren’t.
How often does this happen?
Basically never. Most aren’t getting to their day in court for disobeying orders. They’ll give you a less than honorable discharge quick fast and in a hurry. Back when I was in Don’t Ask Don’t Tell was still a thing, and was used to keep people quiet. I was threatened with it when reporting a sexual assault that leadership wanted to ignore. When I kept going up the chain of command I was eventually told if I didn’t shut up Id I’d be given a less than honorable discharge under violating Don’t Ask Don’t Tell.
Dunno, but an awful lot has been written about it. We don’t elect dictators very often, so I’d say we’re in uncharted waters here.
https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=soliders+who+have+disobeyed+unlawful+orders&ia=web
Lore accurate Jonestown reference? NICE
😁
I literally had kool aid typed because that’s what everyone is used to hearing. Then I thought of the number of times I’ve said “Well ackshually” to others about that, so decided to heed my own pedantry.
I like how the expression is starting to morph into “He drank the Well Actually It Was Flavor-Aid.”
And since the only good reason to make the error would be to invite another pedant into the conversation, I’m finding this whole little sidethread very satisfactory.