The statement followed a report in The Times that a federal health official had urged the removal of age minimums from treatment guidelines for transgender minors.
Another boneheaded triangulation move from Biden. Stop giving ground to the enemy. All they do is use your compromise as a starting point to force further compromise. Give them nothing.
The right: “Trans people shouldn’t exist, people who allow boys to dress as girls and use different pronouns are groomers and should be shot. The far left wants to mutilate your children and put them on hormone drugs.”
Moderates: “Adults can do what they want, and kids should be loved and supported even if they want to present as a different gender. Surgeries and drugs are a bridge too far, and should wait until the child is of age.”
Leftists on Lemmy: “If you don’t support transgender surgeries and drugs for kids, you’re the enemy”
Do you really think that people who hold the moderate position are the enemy?
This kind of thinking is exactly why we have such a festering fascism problem in western civilization right now.
My enemy is the far right fascists, and I want to be able to tell independent voters that they’re wrong about the left, that the left does NOT want to give their kids permanent surgeries and life altering drugs until they are adults that can make those decisions.
I want to be able to tell them that the trans issue is being used to divide us and get people to vote against their economic interests.
Maybe let’s just stay focused about who the enemy really is, so that when the dust settles, more reasonable people can have an adult discussion about where the line is on these sorts of issues. I don’t think this is a settled issue, even within “the left”.
No, fuck off and die. If you’re trans, you should be able to get the hormones you want instead of having your body warped and mutated by the incorrect puberty. The only trans people who disagree with this are pickmes who think that by groveling and sucking up to cis people they might be less transphobic(it won’t work, you will never be "one of the good ones.) You know what’s a life altering change to your body? Fucking cis puberty. Everyone who thinks that trans kids who realize their actual gender and come out before 18 should be unable to transition is bigoted scum. Transphobes should be forcibly dosed with estrogen/testosterone so that they are made to experience even a tiny fraction of the suffering and dysphoria that is being trans.
“The trans issue is being used to divide us and distract from economy” eat shit and die. The right to medical care, to be free from discrimination, to not get fucking murdered like Brianna Ghey and Nex Benedict or god knows how many others is not a distraction. It is not culture war.
Maybe there will be a time when most voters agree with surgeries and drugs for children, but I don’t think we’re there yet, and I don’t think your “fuck off and die” attitude is going to convince very many people to be accepting of trans people.
You’re providing a perfect example of the kind of attitude that will get fascists elected. You’re replying to someone who largely supports trans people and issues, but you’re foaming at the mouth over arguments that I didn’t advance, implying that I think it’s OK to murder trans people.
Consider that the idea of puberty being something that moderates are “inflicting” on trans kids is a fairly radical view and you might need to do more than tell people to “fuck off and die” if you want support for your cause.
Oh, so trans people are responsible for transphobia now. We should just shut up and “keep it in the bedroom, I don’t want to see that kind of stuff on public” and maybe the “largely supportive” cissoids will give us a crumb of rights. Got it.
I empathize with you and understand that you’ve probably had some traumatic experiences. But no, I did not say anything like what you’re asserting, and I’m not sure how you could have read that from my response.
While an aggressive attitude won’t change the mind of bigots, a polite and respectful response to someone who advocates for forcing kids to go through the wrong puberty is going to be especially difficult for people with personal trauma for it, and it’s unreasonable to expect it of them.
I think it’s a reasonable reaction to throw polite discourse out when people use “moderate” as a cover for their bigotry. This is like when “moderate” person said that segregation of black people was reasonable when people were fighting for their civil rights, and that since the moderates weren’t pro-slavery so they were the good guys. No, you’re not the good guys, you’re just not as bad as the super evil guys. Congrats.
Now I won’t tell you to “fuck off and die”, but I will tell you to fuck off. If you were someone I personally knew, I would have put in the effort to be polite and try to educate you or whatever, but since we don’t know each other it’s unlikely to land.
The difference between MLKs views about moderates in the civil rights movement and not supporting surgeries and drugs for children is that white people were (and arguably still are) actively oppressing black people.
Puberty is not something that is “inflicted” on anyone. It just happens, it’s part of life. It’s disingenuous to assert that puberty is an affliction , or that someone is afflicting it on someone else. Unless you’re also arguing that birth is an affliction?
Puberty is not something that is “inflicted” on anyone.
It is when we have the safe medication to make it avoidable for someone who would be harmed by it, but “”“moderates”“” are tying themselves into knots trying to find ways to subvert the medical consensus because the existence of trans children makes them uncomfortable or whatever fucking justification they tell themselves.
I don’t think your “fuck off and die” attitude is going to convince very many people to be accepting of trans people.
Do you think maybe that attitude is the result of being one of the primary political scapegoats for fascists for several years now, while liberals have largely sat on their hands and done nothing while hundreds and hundreds of discriminatory bills flow through state legislatures every single year? While liberals like you gradually adopt reactionary framing (the “dangers” of puberty blockers and the alleged commonality of trans surgeries for children) on the issue, ceding ever more ground to their rhetoric?
You’re providing a perfect example of the kind of attitude that will get fascists elected.
And then victim blaming as the cherry on top. Very cool.
Puberty blockers are not life altering drugs and have been used on cis children for decades with no issues being raised about it, let alone of this scale. Any stance other than this, one based in actual reality, is caving to right wing framing of the issue.
permanent surgeries
So exceedingly rare among trans children that it’s not worth talking about. Trans children rarely get access to puberty blockers, let alone surgeries.
until they are adults that can make those decisions
This is also caving to right wing rhetoric on the issue. Trans children are not walking into gender clinics and saying “One gender-affirming surgery, please :)”, this process typically involves multiple doctors, usually a therapist of some kind, and obviously the kid’s parent(s)/guardian(s). Just like the abortion issue, it should stay that way and be free of state intervention, because to say otherwise would be to contradict the overwhelming majority of medical evidence from the past several decades that indicate that transition leads to the best outcomes for trans people.
I want to be able to tell them that the trans issue is being used to divide us and get people to vote against their economic interests.
As Outdoor_Catgirl said, this issue is not a fucking distraction. To be free from discrimination and the very real threat of violence that often results murder should ostensibly be an issue liberals would care about. But even with the most selfish framing, trans issues are directly related to the lack of adequate and affordable healthcare that plagues this country even after it socially murdered over a million people with the lack of COVID response. So, trans issues should not be seen as a “distraction” or a “culture war”, because increasing discrimination and stochastic violence against a vulnerable minority should be issues that even liberals care about.
The left: Man… I’m never gonna fully get over having gone through puberty for the gender that I feel doesn’t represent me. I wanted to take my own life at times and I had no support. I see that people who started transitioning younger have better results passing and are generally safer for it. I wish we could talk about this openly.
The medical community: It should be alright to delay puberty for trans kids on the same ground we delay puberty for cis kids if there’s a developmental problem, I guess. I don’t think we’ll be providing any life altering surgeries until adulthood however except in maybe extreme circumstances. We’ll see if there’s a suicide risk maybe.
The right: THE LEFT R GONNA CHOP OFF MY SONS DICK AND MY DAUGHTERS TITS THE MOMENT NEXT PRIDE MONTH ROLLS AROUND, I HAVE SEEN IT WRIT IN THE SKY, I HAVE SEEN IT SPELT UPON THE WIND, THERE WILL BE HORMONE GAS ATTACKS, THERE WILL BE ROVING GENDER-SWAPPER MACHINES, MY LINE WILL END IN DEGENERACY
The leadership: This is factually correct. Let us begin the Great Work. Alexa play Yhorm the Giant Dark Souls III OST by Yuka Kitamura.
Centrists: I am just not sure where the line is, y’know?
The moderate position between medical science and ideology is still nonsense.
Puberty is life altering. My body was permanently changed by testosterone in ways that I can never fix and now I have to live the rest of my life with those scars.
No Republican had to give anything up to achieve this, this is literally just the Democrats doing exactly what they want to do because they want to do it.
I wish they’d just be honest about the triangulation. “due to the political climate, we will not be following the best practices as recommended by the relevant experts”
I fear this is the start of the Democrats becoming like UK’s labour. I won’t be surprised if Levine is forced out of her position before the election, based on how the New York Terfs are centering her in this story
Another boneheaded triangulation move from Biden. Stop giving ground to the enemy. All they do is use your compromise as a starting point to force further compromise. Give them nothing.
The right: “Trans people shouldn’t exist, people who allow boys to dress as girls and use different pronouns are groomers and should be shot. The far left wants to mutilate your children and put them on hormone drugs.”
Moderates: “Adults can do what they want, and kids should be loved and supported even if they want to present as a different gender. Surgeries and drugs are a bridge too far, and should wait until the child is of age.”
Leftists on Lemmy: “If you don’t support transgender surgeries and drugs for kids, you’re the enemy”
Do you really think that people who hold the moderate position are the enemy?
This kind of thinking is exactly why we have such a festering fascism problem in western civilization right now.
My enemy is the far right fascists, and I want to be able to tell independent voters that they’re wrong about the left, that the left does NOT want to give their kids permanent surgeries and life altering drugs until they are adults that can make those decisions.
I want to be able to tell them that the trans issue is being used to divide us and get people to vote against their economic interests.
Maybe let’s just stay focused about who the enemy really is, so that when the dust settles, more reasonable people can have an adult discussion about where the line is on these sorts of issues. I don’t think this is a settled issue, even within “the left”.
No, fuck off and die. If you’re trans, you should be able to get the hormones you want instead of having your body warped and mutated by the incorrect puberty. The only trans people who disagree with this are pickmes who think that by groveling and sucking up to cis people they might be less transphobic(it won’t work, you will never be "one of the good ones.) You know what’s a life altering change to your body? Fucking cis puberty. Everyone who thinks that trans kids who realize their actual gender and come out before 18 should be unable to transition is bigoted scum. Transphobes should be forcibly dosed with estrogen/testosterone so that they are made to experience even a tiny fraction of the suffering and dysphoria that is being trans.
“The trans issue is being used to divide us and distract from economy” eat shit and die. The right to medical care, to be free from discrimination, to not get fucking murdered like Brianna Ghey and Nex Benedict or god knows how many others is not a distraction. It is not culture war.
Maybe there will be a time when most voters agree with surgeries and drugs for children, but I don’t think we’re there yet, and I don’t think your “fuck off and die” attitude is going to convince very many people to be accepting of trans people.
You’re providing a perfect example of the kind of attitude that will get fascists elected. You’re replying to someone who largely supports trans people and issues, but you’re foaming at the mouth over arguments that I didn’t advance, implying that I think it’s OK to murder trans people.
Consider that the idea of puberty being something that moderates are “inflicting” on trans kids is a fairly radical view and you might need to do more than tell people to “fuck off and die” if you want support for your cause.
Oh, so trans people are responsible for transphobia now. We should just shut up and “keep it in the bedroom, I don’t want to see that kind of stuff on public” and maybe the “largely supportive” cissoids will give us a crumb of rights. Got it.
I empathize with you and understand that you’ve probably had some traumatic experiences. But no, I did not say anything like what you’re asserting, and I’m not sure how you could have read that from my response.
While an aggressive attitude won’t change the mind of bigots, a polite and respectful response to someone who advocates for forcing kids to go through the wrong puberty is going to be especially difficult for people with personal trauma for it, and it’s unreasonable to expect it of them.
I think it’s a reasonable reaction to throw polite discourse out when people use “moderate” as a cover for their bigotry. This is like when “moderate” person said that segregation of black people was reasonable when people were fighting for their civil rights, and that since the moderates weren’t pro-slavery so they were the good guys. No, you’re not the good guys, you’re just not as bad as the super evil guys. Congrats.
Now I won’t tell you to “fuck off and die”, but I will tell you to fuck off. If you were someone I personally knew, I would have put in the effort to be polite and try to educate you or whatever, but since we don’t know each other it’s unlikely to land.
I say it as someone who used to think like you.
The difference between MLKs views about moderates in the civil rights movement and not supporting surgeries and drugs for children is that white people were (and arguably still are) actively oppressing black people.
Puberty is not something that is “inflicted” on anyone. It just happens, it’s part of life. It’s disingenuous to assert that puberty is an affliction , or that someone is afflicting it on someone else. Unless you’re also arguing that birth is an affliction?
It is when we have the safe medication to make it avoidable for someone who would be harmed by it, but “”“moderates”“” are tying themselves into knots trying to find ways to subvert the medical consensus because the existence of trans children makes them uncomfortable or whatever fucking justification they tell themselves.
Do you think maybe that attitude is the result of being one of the primary political scapegoats for fascists for several years now, while liberals have largely sat on their hands and done nothing while hundreds and hundreds of discriminatory bills flow through state legislatures every single year? While liberals like you gradually adopt reactionary framing (the “dangers” of puberty blockers and the alleged commonality of trans surgeries for children) on the issue, ceding ever more ground to their rhetoric?
And then victim blaming as the cherry on top. Very cool.
Iirc didn’t next kill themselves after starting and losing the fight in the bathroom?
The right: I know better than doctors, and need to make medical decisions for the unwashed masses
Moderates: I know better than doctors, and need to make medical decisions for the unwashed masses
Leftists on Lemmy: bro wtf
Moderates are always the worst.
White liberals are the most destructive thing, gotcha
Yes. 😊
Puberty blockers are not life altering drugs and have been used on cis children for decades with no issues being raised about it, let alone of this scale. Any stance other than this, one based in actual reality, is caving to right wing framing of the issue.
So exceedingly rare among trans children that it’s not worth talking about. Trans children rarely get access to puberty blockers, let alone surgeries.
This is also caving to right wing rhetoric on the issue. Trans children are not walking into gender clinics and saying “One gender-affirming surgery, please :)”, this process typically involves multiple doctors, usually a therapist of some kind, and obviously the kid’s parent(s)/guardian(s). Just like the abortion issue, it should stay that way and be free of state intervention, because to say otherwise would be to contradict the overwhelming majority of medical evidence from the past several decades that indicate that transition leads to the best outcomes for trans people.
As Outdoor_Catgirl said, this issue is not a fucking distraction. To be free from discrimination and the very real threat of violence that often results murder should ostensibly be an issue liberals would care about. But even with the most selfish framing, trans issues are directly related to the lack of adequate and affordable healthcare that plagues this country even after it socially murdered over a million people with the lack of COVID response. So, trans issues should not be seen as a “distraction” or a “culture war”, because increasing discrimination and stochastic violence against a vulnerable minority should be issues that even liberals care about.
The left: Man… I’m never gonna fully get over having gone through puberty for the gender that I feel doesn’t represent me. I wanted to take my own life at times and I had no support. I see that people who started transitioning younger have better results passing and are generally safer for it. I wish we could talk about this openly.
The medical community: It should be alright to delay puberty for trans kids on the same ground we delay puberty for cis kids if there’s a developmental problem, I guess. I don’t think we’ll be providing any life altering surgeries until adulthood however except in maybe extreme circumstances. We’ll see if there’s a suicide risk maybe.
The right: THE LEFT R GONNA CHOP OFF MY SONS DICK AND MY DAUGHTERS TITS THE MOMENT NEXT PRIDE MONTH ROLLS AROUND, I HAVE SEEN IT WRIT IN THE SKY, I HAVE SEEN IT SPELT UPON THE WIND, THERE WILL BE HORMONE GAS ATTACKS, THERE WILL BE ROVING GENDER-SWAPPER MACHINES, MY LINE WILL END IN DEGENERACY
The leadership: This is factually correct. Let us begin the Great Work. Alexa play Yhorm the Giant Dark Souls III OST by Yuka Kitamura.
Centrists: I am just not sure where the line is, y’know?
The moderate position between medical science and ideology is still nonsense.
Puberty is life altering. My body was permanently changed by testosterone in ways that I can never fix and now I have to live the rest of my life with those scars.
Trust doctors.
Only got the auto TLDR to go on but it sounds like he is challenging them to reinstate medication. What is he compramising?
hes not giving ground to the enemy.
he is a conservative, he IS the enemy.
No Republican had to give anything up to achieve this, this is literally just the Democrats doing exactly what they want to do because they want to do it.
I wish they’d just be honest about the triangulation. “due to the political climate, we will not be following the best practices as recommended by the relevant experts”
I fear this is the start of the Democrats becoming like UK’s labour. I won’t be surprised if Levine is forced out of her position before the election, based on how the New York Terfs are centering her in this story