As a software engineer I find it miraculous the amount of people that whine about somebody wanting to get paid for putting weeks, months, and years of their life into a product 100s of thousands of people CHOOSE to use.
So many people sound more like “What do you mean making a website costs more than $20?” types than they realize.
Have been using the Sync reddit app daily for years after paying a couple of quid to remove ads whenever I did that. Felt like a steal then and expensive now so, on balance, I’m comfortable having paid the ad randsome. I feel better knowing it all goes to the developer for his personal efforts.
Removed by mod
So proud to be present and involved in history’s first lemmy app war. I’ll be telling my grandchildren about this some day.
Don’t forget the legend of the un-pooper and the beans can craze.
I miss the beans
…Those were the days
The no poop challenge is legendary
And it’s a very high quality app, to boot. I’ve been a mobile software engineer for more than a decade and this level of polish doesn’t just happen by accident
Same. I’m very grateful for the FOSS options, they’re like a public option. They create a baseline that paid apps have to surpass, but there’s nothing wrong with devs getting paid for their work and that payment shouldn’t have to be at the whims of donations. I view it as more choice and more choice is good. This is a small dev on an open platform that can’t lock out FOSS options. It’s not a mega corp building a monopoly. Sync is not hurting anyone by being a paid option.
It’s not a mega corp building a monopoly. Sync is not hurting anyone by being a paid option.
Wouldn’t they see this as a dev trying to make some fortune over non-profit service?
Not sure though if the dev already automatically donates a portion of his sells to lemmy.
Wouldn’t they see this as a dev trying to make some fortune over non-profit service?
On the other hand, I’d like to see how the donations to the non-profit are being utilized. At least with for-profit we know what’s what.
The way i look at is if you give me a good app(sync) with good functionality and a nice ui I don’t mind seeing ad’s or throwing some money the devs way.
My big issue with the reddit app was there was no equivalent exchange going on i had a shitty app with awful ui that was buggy slow showed me adds and tracked my data I didn’t get anything from that so I had to stop.
Paying is fine, it’s the SHIT TON OF THIRD PARTY TRACKERS they put in the app that worry me
They get completely disabled if you pay, that’s the point. I haven’t got a single tracking ping on my PiHole, I bought adfree.
Wait… you pay for sync not to spy on you?
I hope boost doesn’t go the same way.
Sync is no spying no shit, google ads spy as much as they do in any other site or app you use
Dawg, I have Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and a phone OS owned by Google… If sync spying on me is the worst part then I’m doing pretty good.
I pay 2 bucks a month to show the dev I appreciate his hard work.
If you own a Pixel you could always use GrapheneOS! It’s been wonderful on mine!
Graphene on my Fairphone is pretty great. I do use Sync though because it’s great 🙃
No NFC payments, sadly 😞
Not Sync directly, it’s AdMob and Google. And I paid mainly to support LJ for making one of my favorite apps ever, as I said, I have a PiHole
I paid for Sync to toss some money to a dev responsible for the #1 used app on any of my phones for the last 10 years. I paid a criminally low amount back then for how much I used the app.
It happened to also come with ad removal, but I block those and trackers on my network anyway.
My trust was already broken. These lemmy instances come free of charge, free of ads and free of trackers, and this pig of a dev comes around and pulls out an à la spez shenanigan and everyone praises him. He should be keelhauled. And the lemmy servers should block apps that insert ads unless they share profits. I’d be happy to pay for features that add to lemmy, not for features that were taken away. Fuck sync for lemmy. There, i said it
Freeloader. Enjoy your free stuff off the backs of people doing all the work and paying all the bills.
Freeloading, hmm?
When was the last time you made a unprompted decision to donate to the Lemmy devs?
If they demand payment for third party dev they wouldn’t be free open source anymore, your argument is asinine. If you don’t want to use a paid app then don’t, stop acting like someone else doing it is in some way hurting you personally.
Not getting into this argument because I personally don’t give a shit about the whole situation, but that isn’t really how FOSS works.
The software itself is free, the servers themselves are a service however. That is not free, it may be free to US, but somebody is footing the bill.
That being said, if the sync developer is developing an app for a platform that itself does not use ads and relies solely on donation, ethically speaking he should at least donate some of the profit to the Lemmy devs (even if just 1%), considering that the app DOES rely on their software and they themselves are not seeing any of those funds whatsoever. I have no problem with donations whatsoever, but keep in mind that it isn’t like sync is the greatest creation ever made and is totally self reliant, it 100% depends on Lemmy itself to function.
Whether he does or not doesn’t matter to me because jerboa works perfectly fine for me, but that is just my .02. People are really getting way too fucking heated about this shit and seeing it start to infect spaces like shitpost is honestly turning me off to Lemmy.
People are treating the app like the second coming of Christ FFS.
It is.
Correct, the use of the service at the moment is free the fee l third party creators are charging for their service in development of that particular interface. They’re free to do that.
Who says he doesn’t? You legit don’t know what deal they may or may not have, stop assuming.
Bro it’s shit post… What standards are you holding it to here lol.
No people are overdueing a joke as always on shit post and as usual people hop in and get way too serious about throwaway jokes.
If he is donating, then he should tell people that he is donating. The whole idea of “if you tell people of your goodwill then you undid your goodwill” is stupid. Yes, you shouldn’t do something good with the expectation of a reward, but that’s different when you are selling a product.
It’s not even just about goodwill, it is also about longevity of the platform.
However, considering the facts that he is running ads and charging for ad-free access, I doubt he is donating by default unless he specifically mentions it.
Also, I’m not holding any standard here, it’s just that like, shitpost is for actual shitposts. This isn’t a shitpost, it’s just starting another argument. It’s like the porn spam in /b/, there are other boards for that.
It’s also not just here, I’m seeing boards everywhere popping up with this argument. It is getting old.
I mean… I personally do consider it the second coming of Christ 🤷
More fanatical than arch users, that’s coming from one himself.
Yeah, how come some nefarious people charge for a calendar app, if days are free!!?oneTurd D:<.
/S
Feel better now?
A lot better
I mean your name is “codemaster” where is your free to use lemmy app ? or do you expect to be paid for your coding efforts?
Let me just bunch up some third party trackers and ads in a pretty UI and ask you for money real quick
You need some perspective lmao
And “keelhauled”, really? You are advocating violence and criticising somebody for doing an app that people can choose to get or not. It’s hard, no impossible, to take you seriously
I’m confused. Are you suggesting a better way to monetize non-paying users or are you saying that the dev should make the app free for everyone to use without ads?
He should not add anti-features where there are none and then ask for money to remove them. That’s just being an asshole. He should ask for money for good features that lemmy lacks, not turn Lemmy into Reddit
“Anti-features” = 1 very obvious ad every time I load a new page.
Your irrationally emotional and crazed sounding response will actually encourage more people to use Sync, thanks bro
Blargoroni! Whatever you do, don’t eat rotten vegetables, it’ll make you sick!!! Booga booga booga! I’m ca_raaaazy_!
(Does this make you want to eat rotten veggies?)
…
Your brain appears to be a rotten vegetable 😂
This makes me want to eat brains
Lemmy needs more drama. When all is perfect it’s too bland.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=FJdcwvmJ4fA
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
Actually maybe you have a point there you idiot lol
How do I give more money than I already have to this pig of a dev who made the Lemmy experience so great to me and countless others such that it is now in the top 10 social apps on the Play store?
lmao
Let me get this right - you’re worried about tracking it use an Android phone?
I’m running a custom ROM. Go back to your ecoshitstem apple fanboy
That’s where I’m at. Don’t care that it’s not FOSS or the Dev charges. I just wouldn’t support an app that puts trackers and ads on a product that inherently doesn’t. Putting it behind a paywall wouldn’t bother me a bit.
That said, that’s why I don’t use it nor support it but don’t give a shit if someone else does.
Can’t we just be happy that we’re not on Reddit instead of fighting over which UI we prefer!?
Maybe the real Reddit was the arguments with friends we made along the way
Aw that’s sweet
Fuck you
I feel at home <3
Aww I missed the wholesome Reddit moments.
Awww, fuck you too!
We’re ALL Reddit/Lemmy on this blessed day.
Many of us left reddit due to which
AIUI we prefer. So I can see why this happens now.Not picking on you, but I see people use “AI” instead of “UI” more and more these days and I wonder if it’s part of the reason all startups suddenly feel like they have to introduce AI features — everyone keeps talking about how important it is after all
I wonder what these people think AI means…
In my case it is auto correct on my phone. Maybe because people text about AI so much that their auto correct thinks it is supposed to be AI instead of UI. Like mine did.
I thought it was due to wanting to try a non corporate alternative to social media. Before Spez mishandling of the incident I was ready to just use old.reddit.com on Firefox and figure out how to get RES onto mobile, or just use it less and more on desktop only. Had he just quietly let the protest pass by without throwing a tantrum I’d probably still be using reddit.
That plays a role for a lot of people probably. I’d think the majority got ripped over the edge by the third party app thing because the default UI in the app and browser are just worse.
Had he just quietly let the protest pass by without throwing a tantrum I’d probably still be using reddit.
Honestly, if reddit has just been upfront and said “we need to consolidate where people browse our site on mobile for our IPO”, people would still have been annoyed but i don’t think all the drama would have taken place. The issue was really just in the way that the management handled the situation by giving devs a “fuck you” API pricing and acting like TPA devs were being unreasonable for not wanting to pay the ridiculous fees. If they had just been upfront and honest then I don’t think I’d be here on lemmy.
Didn’t most of us? If you were happy using reddit app you are almost certainly still drooling on yourself scrolling through the super sexy posts on /askreddit and think Lemmy is probably the name of a band that nerds like.
The fact we can even pick between multiple UIs is a blessing lol
Agreed.
I use two and it’s okay. I uninstalled Reddit app today and deleted every account. I already had did it on the main start of July but the other accounts had to follow through
I’m not fighting, I just want sync users to shut the fuck up and stop advertising their app at every possible minute, because those of us who aren’t using it have already decided it isn’t the one for us.
My reply to all the naysayers:
Thanks for making Lemmy feel like home, it wouldn’t without you!
The reality is it’s a free world, regardless of what morality you put on things there are going to be things that happen that you don’t like. That’s life.
Like it or not Lemmy has had explosive growth because of apps like Sync. Because of them being killed off by Reddit. If it weren’t for the drama of Reddit doing that, I and millions of other users wouldn’t be here right now as we’d still be on Reddit.
Even people who weren’t using the 3rd party apps left Reddit because Reddit’s actions left a bad taste in their mouths.
So, morality of one guy charging for his honest work in creating the paid or ad supported app aside, you should be thanking the apps including sync for helping drive so many users to Lemmy.
If you yourself don’t want to use a paid app, then that’s okay! We’re all allowed to respond or react to things how we want, but being incredibly divisive for something that a lot of people wanted and that really is inconsequential is almost universally frowned on.
Just let people do what they want and don’t shoot them down for it. More options for browsing Lemmy = more Lemmings = more content.
Much love my dudes! We may disagree on this but we agree on many many many more things I’m sure, just because we’re on Lemmy instead of Reddit in the first place is proof of that! ✌️
Well put. Also, I hope this whole topic dies soon.
Me too. I can’t wait for the next subject of Lemmy drama! It makes me feel alive! 😂
People care too much about which app you use. At the end of the day, as long as you’re happy with sync it shouldn’t matter
I agree, just wish they would stop mentioning how their app is “just so great and only $20 to get no ads” in every single thread and every other post on every instance
My comment to that is in every single thread and every other post on every other instance someone is saying how sync is ad filled and tracker heavy. So let’s just all agree to never talk about apps, ever.
I wasn’t a Sync user on Reddit, but Relay didn’t make it over to Lemmy. Sync has some of the most non-intrusive ads I’ve ever seen, and that’s coming from someone who is extremely anti-ads. They’re very different from the actual posts and super easy to just scroll past. It’s also very clearly made by someone who is great with UI/UX.
Are “they” in the room with us right now?
what happens when you say sync in the mirror 3 times
The water turns on.
Oh man, Sync is just so great and only $20 to get no ads you should give it a try!
Play store link: Sync for Lemmy
The only comments I personally see are complaining about the price. Most people just use it. I subscribed instantly and knew I would before the price was revealed. I’m only saying it because it’s on topic now, but tend not to get into the discussion because in the end it’s up to the individual whether or not the cost makes the app worth using.
I use Sync because it was my favorite client for reddit but I’m definitely gonna hold out on paying until there is a sale or something. My usage of Lemmy is not that high at the moment.
And I would never say that anyone should pay for something unless they feel it to be worth the price. Just like I wouldn’t tell someone not to pay for it because I think the price is too high for me.
I’ve used Sync for as many years as I was on reddit. I paid almost nothing for the app back then compared to the amount of time I’ve spent on it. I feel like the whole discussion on price is meaningless, really. Some people aren’t gonna like it, some aren’t going to care.
I also see comments concerning their privacy policy. Which is fair.
Hey, I get that. A lot of people over here are very privacy conscious and I’m not against it at all. The dev just hasn’t ever given me a reason to distrust them in all the years I’ve used the app. There’s been a built up trust, so to speak.
The control of private data is important and when I’m told that the collection stops if I have the ad free version I believe it.
But that’s more in response to people saying it cost over 100$ to remove ads and it has trackers.
The ultra life time cost 100$, it stops the ads and also comes with some extra features that isn’t needed to enjoy sync.
For 20$ the ads will stop and the trackers will be disabled.
Why would you need to pay $20 to access free content? Devs don’t pay any creator who makes you scroll Lemmy. They are useless and sell you air.
You don’t need to do anything, just keep on using the FOSS apps. It’s all good. It’s all about having choice.
The content isn’t really “free” the people running the servers need to be paid also. If nobody would donate or they don’t use any other form of getting funds, the servers wouldn’t last.
Sync just provides a way to get to content in a nice polished way, at least that’s how experience it. I could watch ads but I paid for a more better experience.
Both need to make money to eat and keep things running.
When you take a taxi to see a movie, nobody thinks that the taxi driver shouldn’t be paid.
If someone sell an air purifier, would you berate them for selling access to free air? Of course not, you can still access free air without it. The air purifier just make the free air feel nicer, just like sync making browsing free Lemmy contents feel nicer.
This feels a bit more like setting up a ticket booth outside a public library, and offering a half-assed tour where the guide just reads the signs to you
I’m going to roll my eyes any time someone says they can’t use the library without it, but you do you. If it keeps y’all reading, then that’s fine.
It’s more like selling seat cushions when the library only has folding chairs.
Everyone can still go into the library. If you have the means and desire, buy a seat cushion. If not, the books are still there for everyone.
Why would they pay 20$? Because even if sync is used to access a free service it is a product someone spent their time to make, and is optional. If people want to pay to use the app without ads because they think it’s made better than the others (ignoring the ad and Google tracking on free version it IS one of if not the best app experience for Lemmy) they will. The Lemmy experience on sync is 100% better than on Jerboa for me, and I work hard running my own business so I’m not poor so I already forgot about that 20$ and I’m enjoying lemmy MORE than I was before
It’s really simple you guys are just grouches.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I don’t care what client y’all use as long as people are here and not on reddit
Most people don’t care about what client others are using. It’s more the evangelizing of what how $20 isn’t that big a deal that is starting to get annoying. If it was just Sync came out and people who liked it used it then it’d be fine, but then some of you guys are bit too fanatical that you’d go into other communities like liftoff to start arguing about Sync and how $20 is worth paying and the app deserves it and so on, and then trashing the Foss alternatives. Yes we get it you love Sync and is the best app ever, but try and tone it down a bit. It’s more the userbase that is hurting the image right now than anything.
I’m not making poats about it I’m simply replying to comments other people are making about it first. Lol
I don’t care about your background, but since you’ve mentioned it, you could’ve dropped $20 to lemmy.ml instead of cashing out for an app that creates problems unless you pay for it, since you throw money around that easy. They need it more than sync devs. This conversation couldn’t have happened if our instances weren’t properly hosted, but they are still availiable on any app you choose.
How do you know I haven’t donated to my Lemmy instance?
And it’s not really throwing money around if it’s something I use daily and get value from, is it? Im not being irresponsible lol my bills are paid my savings grows every week even when I buy myself superficial things, so it’s not really an issue, also why the fuck should you care how I spend my money lmao
By your ‘gotcha’ comeback, silly. Why do you throw at me how happy and financially savvy you are? Did someone hurt you? Why instead of defending your point you prove you are so well-off? It sounds stupid and miserable. I’m nobody on the internet, Idfc about your bills.
And I don’t care about you personally, but you and others like you enable sync to thrive. It shall crumble. I lowkey like that sync devs milked some money from ya, but it should’ve happened in a more trad fashion, like MML, cryptoscam or something obvious. It could’ve made easier laughing at you.
Jerboa is free for no ads and doesn’t have a complicated privacy policy.
And it’s not as good of a user experience as sync for Lemmy. I’ve been using jerboa for couple months now and sync smokes it so far. If people want to pay 20$ for a better user experience they will its not complicated. Jerboa feels like an Android app from 2010.
Unless it should? And we shall bully them? They should feel unneeded there?
They put ads and ask for cash while showing other people’s free resources they put their mind to create? While no other client do so? And plenty of people\bots enable them? And call that a pointless argument on fediverse? Lmao.
Their spines should be broken asap, and everything around Lemmy should stay free or donation-based. If it is not, next you see are paywalled apps and instances. No one would benefit from a trend of purchaseable clients but these devs, while they don’t bring content, or anything to the table. Their app is useless without others’ work, and yet they charge you 20-100 bucks for being a middleman between you and it. It’s senseless.
Fuck sync devs. Fuck sync shills. Fuck them all.
They bring something to the table: the app. It’s a lot of work to build an app, and takes a lot of time and knowledge. It’s perfectly okay to monetize your work. If you don’t like it, why not build one yourself? The servers are there, and they are free. So is the documentation, and the protocols.
Their invasive tactics are concerning. If we’d eat that, other devs may follow. It may become the new reality.
Servers aren’t free. Donating to your instance is better than paying forban add-free Sync experience. This way you also help other users by making downtime even less noticeable.
Nothing is free. If you value the app and don’t like ads, pay for it. If not, use a free one or build one yourself. If you value the service a server is providing, pay for it. Why would you want to artificially restrict our possibilities? it’s not like we can only choose one or the other.
deleted by creator
So don’t use it? Or pay for it and avoid the ads?
deleted by creator
It may snowball into other apps wanting it too? The first to take this step out of blue is asking to face some resistance. It’s natural. I’m surprised no one else is against them.
So? Someone who can’t afford to build an app for free won’t do it if there is no demand for it. People building free open source apps will still do it. I really don’t get the problem…
Other free services becoming for-profits and add-infested? Sync can set a trend others may follow. As they are first to do so, I’m surprised no one argues thst, as they may set up a degradation of every others’ experience with this platform.
Are you OK?
They losing sleep over a Lemmy app of course they are not okay.
Someone should’ve brought it. It’s weird we kinda accepted it once it happened for no reason.
No sleep lost, lmao, just some corporate time.
You know you can still get your points across without throwing some insults and vitriol, right? You’ll just unnecessarily make people mad and unwilling to listen to your arguments, and make Lemmy as a whole slightly more toxic place in doing so.
Thanks for making Lemmy feel like home, it wouldn’t without you!
The reality is it’s a free world, regardless of what morality you put on things there are going to be things that happen that you don’t like. That’s life.
Like it or not Lemmy has had explosive growth because of apps like Sync. Because of them being killed off by Reddit. If it weren’t for the drama of Reddit doing that, I and millions of other users wouldn’t be here right now as we’d still be on Reddit.
Even people who weren’t using the 3rd party apps left Reddit because Reddit’s actions left a bad taste in their mouths.
So, morality of one guy charging for his honest work in creating the paid or ad supported app aside, you should be thanking the apps including sync for helping drive so many users to Lemmy.
If you yourself don’t want to use a paid app, then that’s okay! We’re all allowed to respond or react to things how we want, but being incredibly divisive for something that a lot of people wanted and that really is inconsequential is almost universally frowned on.
Just let people do what they want and don’t shoot them down for it. More options for browsing Lemmy = more Lemmings = more content.
Much love my dude! We may disagree on this but we agree on many many many more things I’m sure, just because we’re on Lemmy instead of Reddit in the first place is proof of that! ✌️
Someone downvoted you for the first paragraph, I guess.
I don’t think Sync impacted the reach of Lemmy just yet (it rolled out how many days before?) but it would, maybe. Especially for those who used it before.
I spat acid not because I’m pissed at people who use it or devs especially, but for not seeing any critique. It seems like an important turning point for Lemmy as a community. And no one bat an eye. I acted as a counterbalance. A mad one, and picked some low-stakes fights. It was funny.
Have a nice day, dude\ss.
Lol
Remember folks whether you choose to use sync or another lemmy app none of us are using reddits shitty mobile app and in that way we are all winners
This to me is the most salient point. I think this initial noise will fade away once the various options are all available.
It will never completely go away because people love to be tribal but it will probably settle into puticular communities where people can talk about the different lemmy apps
I’m on both so there’s that and I ain’t rebuying sync when all he literally did was a copy and paste job.
Are you stupid? The backend is completely different and there are many many changes required since the fundamental concept of federation-based services is different and requires different user decisions, which need a UI. No instances on Reddit, are there? So there’s not an infinite number of log in urls, there is no need to gracefully handle defederation, instance-level blocking, etc.
It’s not a copy paste job.
Also, he offers a “restore purchases” button. It’s in settings.
Honestly I’m using, and especially posting on, Lemmy much more often now that I have sync back.
I had been using Sync for Reddit for so many years that it became muscle memory. Now I have it back and things just feel right.
I’m still waiting for Boost, but Sync is fine for now 🙂
Do you have access to an unreleased build? Still no post submission functionality on mine just yet (commenting from Sync).
Sync is still just in beta so a bunch of features are lacking. Post submission will come with time.
Definitely. I’m just wondering because they referred to posting on Lemmy more frequently with Sync - curious if there’s another build or whether they meant commenting specifically.
deleted by creator
Jeroba on mobile, web app inside of firefox with adblockers on desktop.
I used Jeroba while I was waiting for sync to come out. Personally it’s really no competition, it’s great that it is being worked on but Jeroba is significantly worse in every way except for being open source. Hopefully someday it will be great!
Synk is just so polished comparatively everything else feels unfinished
I ditched Jerboa for Liftoff, and then Liftoff for Thunder because they all kept breaking.
Thunder was alright, all things considered, but the UI is lacking. Now that Sync is out, I’m back to where I started 12+ years ago.
Jerboa feels a lot like Joey
Not quite, but close
I don’t know who or what Joey is.
Yeah I feel the same. Used sync for Reddit for YEARS too. I’ve been using Lemmy way more since Sync launched. I’m happy with it 🤷.
I personally stopped browsing Reddit once getting sync. It just FEELS right.
When did Sync launch? I was on the waitlist but just installed, waiting to try it out.
Well Im trying out sync and it’s honestly such a good and polished app. A big Kudos to the dev. Would probably buy the premium if the pricing goes down.
It’s definitely the most polished, snappiest, cleanest Lemmy app atm and I am loving it
Memmy is incredible. I wonder how they stack up.
Amazing how good it is considering the amount of back end changes needed.
It was obviously written well with separation of concerns considered so it could be done that way.
If you count back the Reddit versions this is the 3rd or 4th version. Keeps getting better and better.
Personally, I don’t give a flying fuck what client any of you use as long as you are here. :)
Hear hear!
$20 to support a solo dev AND remove ads from his awesome lemmy client? Sweet!
Are there any Lemmy apps that actually let you click and highlight a parent comment and then click on a next button to automatically and instantly scroll to the next apparent level comment? RiF (Reddit is fun) had that feature and I can’t believe I’m not seeing it on either connect for Lemmy or that sync app.
Mother of God. Thanks!
In sync if you long press on a comment it’ll collapse all children… admittedly it’s different than what you were describing but it’ll have a similar effect. Lmk if you want a screenshot or something.
And you can toggle it to be single click, not hold because sync likes config options
Same in Connect ;)
You can also hide the clicked (parent) comment too. I don’t personally use it, to keep an overview, but it allows going through comments with much less scrolling.
Yeah, why are some people saying it’s a hundred dollars? I’m still using the free version, but my Google Play page is saying 20 bucks. I don’t know where that extra 80 is coming from
Sync ultra
AND remove ads
See that’s what I find obnoxious. IMO programs should not have advertising because nothing should have advertising. Advertising is capitalist conditioning. It shoves consumerism down our throats. The last thing we need now is more mindless consumption!
I suppose that if you don’t have any contempt for or opposition to advertising then there really isn’t a reason to complain. But I really wish people would take a stand against advertisement, or more generally capitalism and consumerism. Really, who would choose an application where space is wasted on selling them crap when any other option is available? I think such a choice is influenced by the idea that advertising is an inherent part of life, an idea which needs to be countered whenever it crops up. You should be free to make choices that others find irrational of course, but I still think that we need to step up and counter the logic that advertising is some neutral force.
If the developer wants to monetize the program, he could find some other way to do it, such as luxury features, premium support, or premium feature requests. However, my view is that things that occur primarily to make money should probably not occur at all, and that they only happen because capitalism has been imposed upon us. Said differently: if you don’t want to develop an app, then just don’t do it. I’m absolutely willing to compensate you for your work, and I know that we all need to make a living (under capitalism!), but if the money is forcing you to do it, then clearly you wouldn’t do it in a free environment [1].
But at the end of the day, I cannot stress enough how sick I am of being advertised to. No, I don’t want to buy your product. If I want to obtain something, I will go to your website or subscribe to your mailing list, or otherwise proactively indicate my interest. If you want to promote stuff, promote your own stuff or stuff , so ince you think your audience/customers would be interested in, because I’ve already somehow explicitly indicated that I’m interested in your affairs/wares. So I’ve made it a goal to expel advertising from all aspects of my life.
[1] Yes, this would imply that the vast majority of workers would drop out of the workforce and go do things that they enjoy. This would be a good thing. We don’t need to waste all our time doing “productive” stuff anymore.
I too dream of a world where we’ve moved on from capitalism to a socialist utopia like is in the United Federation of Planets, but we are not currently in that world. So until that time, we all have to earn a living to pay our landlords and feed ourselves.
For most things we are given a choice between ads or paying, and I almost always choose paying for no ads as I can’t stand them either. But until developers can live without bills and only do work for free because they enjoy it, our choice remains pay for no ads or be served ads. So I paid for no ads.
So I deleted the original comment because I found out that there was more to the Sync story than just advertising, and I realized that my comment wasn’t up to snuff. I didn’t mean to deceive anyone.
But until developers can live without bills and only do work for free because they enjoy it, our choice remains pay for no ads or be served ads.
That was exactly my point though: we do not have only two choices [(1) to pay for no ads and (2) to be served ads]. I listed some some alternative monetization schemes that don’t encourage consumerism. Namely, premium support for paying users, custom feature requests for users willing to pay the development cost, or luxury features that, while nice to have, aren’t necessary for the functioning of the app.
This point was probably in response to the section of the deleted comment where I argued that stuff that is done only for money probably shouldn’t happen at all. I stand by that. However, I do recognize the need for developers to eat. (I thought I said as much in the deleted comment.) For this reason, I use all sorts of software that I have paid for, and will continue to do so [2]. However, I will not pay a developer for their software if the functionality they’re selling me is “not having ads,” because ads shouldn’t exist.
I shouldn’t have to pay for my software not to kick me in the balls; similarly, I shouldn’t have have to pay for my software not to show me ads. Unlike being kicked in the balls [1], every waking moment of my life up until recently has been crammed with ads.
There are an infinite number of ways to make money that don’t require advertising, and I would be willing to pay for them in general [2]. Hell, I’ll be willing to donate for no reward [2]. I’m not against making money in an arbitrary way (at least under current conditions), but I most certainly oppose advertising as a specific way of making money.
[1] I’m not “into” that, but in case it isn’t clear, I would rather be kicked in the balls than see one more godforsaken advertisement. I cannot stress enough how much I hate advertising.
[2] …once I have a non-zero income.
Instead of seeing it as a charge to remove ads, maybe look at it as buying the ad free app from the dev? That’s how I see it. And giving people the option to use the app for free with ads is IMO a decent trade off.
maybe look at it as buying the ad free app from the dev?
I would rather just give the dev money for literally nothing if it allows everyone else an ad-free experience. Literally the second I get a non-zero income, I’ll begin donating to FOSS projects.
And giving people the option to use the app for free with ads is IMO a decent trade off.
I mean it’s a better tradeoff than “pay vs. be excluded”, but I don’t think people fully realize the tradeoff they’re making: time is a lot more valuable than money in my view. No matter how much money you throw at the problem, you will eventually run out of time and die. Your time is precious! If that’s the tradeoff you want to make then it would be wrong of me to stop you, but I really wish that people would stop and think “do I really want to spend my finite time on this miserable planet on this?”.
I’ve spent more than enough of my time being bored by advertisements, and even as I try to remove them from my life, people close to me insist that I waste my time on ads because they want to show me something but they were too lazy to install an adblocker. Ads are constantly being blasted from my parents’ and grandmother’s TV’s, they invade our computers, they even talk about ads at the dinner table. It breaks my heart.
I know that my anti-advertisement position is a bit extreme, but I feel like I have to push back against the constant intrusions of capitalism into our personal lives, advertising being the primary front of this battle. Of course I’m willing to agree to disagree, but I still feel it necessary to debate this.
You know you’re not paying for “no ads” right? You’re simply using an alternative payment method. If somebody can’t afford something you’re suggesting we exclude them? Make it paid for only? The ads serve as payment for those without the means or are just unwilling to pay and still get the same options as everyone else. For someone that hates capitalism you’re sure good at preaching it.
Whaaaat noooo. Silly. The dev should just cater to people with money or quit their source of income and be happy… Or something?
The ads serve as payment for those without the means or are just unwilling to pay and still get the same options as everyone else.
That’s an interesting perspective. The way I see it though, the cost you pay in advertising, besides program functionality, is time. No matter how much money Jeff Bezos gets, eventually he will die. Your time is precious. Advertising is a waste of time on an unfathomable scale. I think that most people don’t fully understand the tradeoff they’re making by giving their time to advertisements because we’ve been conditioned not to think critically about how we use our time. This allows capitalists to easily exploit people into doing tedious work for them, saving them time. A lot of people assume that there’s a whole life after the lights go out, and they’re wasting their time under the assumption that their time in the afterlife will be infinite.
If somebody can’t afford something you’re suggesting we exclude them?
Generally speaking, no. I brought up some specific examples of reasonable ways to monetize software:
-
Custom feature request: you can pay the development cost for a large custom feature that becomes available to everyone. For example, let’s say I’m using an office software on x86-64, and I want the developers to port a version for ARM64 and help me deploy it on hundreds of Raspberry Pi’s. They’re probably not going to do that for free. Maybe someone else will do it, but if I need to make it happen, I’m willing to pay someone for their time! Ordinary bug fixes and feature requests for free customers would still be honored.
-
Luxury features: for example, icon packs [1], custom colors [1], and extra fonts. For each item, this only includes those items which don’t affect accessibility and function; for example, it wouldn’t be cool to charge extra for a Sans-Serif font option, because Sans-Serif fonts are, generally speaking, easier for low-vision people to read. However, I don’t think there would be too much of an issue with charging for some Sans-Serif font as long a reasonable selection of them are installed for free [2]. The full functionality of the app should be available to all users, including and especially those who can’t afford to pay.
-
Premium support for paying users: some users are going to require more support than others. For example, let’s say I want to deploy an office software on 1000 computers, and I want to get constant support for my users to transition to the software. In the current economic system, it absolutely makes sense to charge for that as a service under the assumption that, if you need that level of support, you can probably afford to pay for the required development time and manpower to take on such a large project and still have time to assist other users.
Frankly, I think that people who cannot afford to pay for the software should simply get it for free. You shouldn’t have to pay in any way, cash or otherwise. The dev isn’t going to get a transaction if I can’t pay for it; might as well just give it away. If you don’t, I’m totally going to steal it anyways. Those who can pay probably should, and I will do so once I get a non-zero income.
However, if you’re going to sell anything, I think it is least damaging to sell only those parts that users do not need to use the program. You shouldn’t sell any part of the program if you can avoid it, but if you can’t, sell the unimportant stuff.
I suppose that if the choice is exclusively between paying with cash and paying by watching advertisements, and that choice is immutably carved into the fabric of the universe, then I suppose that it makes sense to have a choice [3]. However, it is my entire point that these are not the only options. One choice could be to not pay and just get it for free. This is the choice pirates will make, including myself. Another could be to pay some other way, or make some less damaging subset of the program be the item you pay for. Someone more creative than me could probably devise a more interesting business model.
For someone that hates capitalism you’re sure good at preaching it.
I appreciate critiques like these, but I will reiterate that I have absolutely no income at the moment, so I would be locked out of all the things I proposed. I’m not going to advocate for my own oppression. I’ve come up with those specific examples of monetization schemes as the least damaging I could think of.
[1] If I remember correctly, Reddit tried a scam where they made the default icon obviously ugly and then charged for the one people want. Additionally, I understand that color schemes can be important for accessibility purposes, for example in the case of color blindness. My point is that there should be a reasonable amount of icons and theming to accomodate all users. Beyond that, it is least damaging to charge for additional cosmetic changes.
[2] This is a feature I would be more likely to pay for because I’m really fucking picky about fonts. I’m low-vision myself, but as far as reading is concerned most of the traditional fonts work well enough; they just look kinda crappy.
[3] In situations where these are imposed to be the only options, I elect not to use it. I’ve lost out on a lot of opportunities because of my opposition to advertisements, and more broadly capitalism!
-
I’m gonna be really happy when school is back in session.
Surely we can agree it’s better to have too many choices rather than having some greedy piggy ban them all.
One thing I didn’t like from Reddit, the elitism and gatekeeping posts from its users. OP, I’m right there with you.
It does seem like a large number of Lemmy users are elitist snobs. I thought this place was turning out better than Reddit, but it’s looking like I was wrong. People like that ruin platforms like this and sour the experience.
FOSS and focus on privacy does that to some people, they feel superior because they worry about those things they see as being beneficial.
I’m sure many of the users from the before time were here specifically to not use a closed source, data gathering platform, so they’re a bigger proportion of users than they were on Reddit and they tolerate the most extreme elements of their community that also happen to be the most vocal.
TL;DR: Reddit is for normies and now normies are on a platform where radicals were everywhere and part of the majority before they arrived.
Sometimes those extreme privacy preachers remind me of doomsday preppers.
I too reduced my data finger print, started using uBlock, thought more often if the data in a registration form is really needed for the service they provide (and didn’t register when in doubt), and so on…
I don’t have Facebook, WhatsApp, TikTok, Instagram, Twitter (anymore), the only things I have are Reddit, Lemmy and Mastodon.
Still I don’t inspect every bit going through my network with Wireshark and PiHole to see, if some packet sent while watching a movie may contain personal data. At some point you gotta live a little instead of full-time fear mongering, doomsday preaching for the tech apocalypse.
I have reduced my digital fingerprints by a large margin with common sense, I don’t need a 100% privacy speedrun, what counts is that you do something. And the effects show, especially in the form of less spam and recommendations for items you’ll never need.
Google knows which topics I search for, big whoop, wouldn’t be much of a search engine otherwise.
Toughen up, elitist jackasses are everywhere, they were even on reddit before we left. It’ll pass.
There are many entitled people here. Some of them are from linux community. Anything other than that is bad and 1000 posts related to that. Another is sync and other apps. Especially open source only good, closed source everything bad. My feed was full of that. Even though I am a sync user i feel angry when seeing so many non sense posts supporting and against that. Even some communities not related to these are posting this.
The reason why many people swapped was because Lemmy harbors smarter individuals. I need to feel superior simply because I use Lemmy, Otherwise there’s no point.
deleted by creator
Not wanting to use any app that goes to a google server for a lemmy app is being privacy focused. Telling other people their preference in not valuing the same thing is wrong is elitism - saying that no app should do something, and nobody else should use an app that does that thing, because you prefer it that way - that’s elitism.
Sync and the people who like it aren’t invalid just because your preference is being privacy focused.
Along the same lines, it’s totally possible to espouse the values of privacy to others without being elitist, as long as you aren’t talking down to other people or invalidating other people’s preferences, because that’s elitism.
deleted by creator
I’m saying it’s my choice where I want to send my data.
deleted by creator
It’s not your choice stop arguing
So? If you’re running an unaltered vendor version of Android chances are incredibly high much of this information has already reached Google, Meta or any other mega corp. You’re shit outta luck here boy.
deleted by creator
Cringe
No, it is elitism and gatekeeping
Shouldn’t an ethical human choose tools that do more good than harm? As long as an application does that, does it matter if it’s open source or not? The software we use in our daily lives is a personal choice and people shouldn’t be shamed for choosing a closed source application. Especially one created by an independent, craftsman software company. Sync, and other well-designed for-profit clients, benefit Lemmy, an open platform. That benefits all.
Let me add, many of us are social media refugees, fleeing exploitative and closed platforms like Reddit, Twitter, and Facebook. There is also nothing wrong with continually evaluating the closed source solutions we choose to prevent repeating past mistakes.
I don’t know about doing good or harm but I’ve used sync for reddit for years and years. The dev isn’t some big corporation and that’s generally enough for me. I’ll support them as long as their app has the experience that I prefer. I tried a few different apps until sync came out and I really gave them all a fair shot but none of them felt right. The fact that so many users bailed to Lemmy because Reddit broke third party apps and then turned around and got up people’s butts for using specific third party apps is kind of hilarious to me. A huge wave of users came here for sync etc and people are trying to push them away or bully them like reddit did? They might not be bullying for the same exact reason but it’s got the same vibe imo.
Ironically, from what I’ve seen the sync users have been way more radical than the “anti-sync” users.
Before you read this I cannot stress enough that I’m neutral in this, I’m just a little irritated that I’m now seeing this in basically every sub.
There’s been examples of the reverse from both sides, but the fact that I am now seeing this spam about pointless shit like this on shitpost is proof of this.
It is just an app, both of you. Sync dev should donate some profit (even as small as 1%) to Lemmy devs because his app relies on their software. App itself doesn’t have to be free but if it includes anti-features in the name of profits it is only fair, otherwise it is an exploitation of the GPL.
Lemmy being a FOSS project with no ads running, it is pretty much up to devs pockets, instances pockets, and donations to keep the project going. If the sync developer is going to make money off of an app that essentially serves as a gateway to this service, ethically speaking he should contribute to it considering the software itself is what even makes the app function. If Lemmy were to shutdown, the app would be useless.
Having been involved in the FOSS community for 18 years, the community heavily relies on the collaboration, contributions, and donations of those who partake in it. Without at least one of those things, the project dies, I have seen it hundreds of times now. Wherever you (all of you) may stand when it comes to FOSS, know that using Lemmy technically makes you a part of that community.
We will see if the people here are sane or not by watching the karma of this post. If it is negative then the people in this argument are blinded by unnecessary rage and need to cool it.
