• magnetosphere@fedia.io
    17013·
    3 months ago

    He strikes me as the kind of person who uses words like “bourgeoisie” to sound smart and thoughtful… but uses them while regurgitating talking points from fox “news”.

    • Beaver@lemmy.caOPEnglish
      646·
      3 months ago

      They’re not much different from the republicans they so detest. Hell I mean even Cuba is apathetic towards transgender people, Nutomic should be like them.

    • XNX@slrpnk.net
      248·
      3 months ago

      Tankies like him basically regurgitate fox news talking points other than anything relating to china lol. Like literally itd be difficult to tell them apart if china wasnt mentioned

    • barsquid@lemmy.world
      207·
      3 months ago

      The very left lefties who explain to us that the best tactics to achieve leftism are coincidentally doing exactly what the rightmost political group wants.

      • magnetosphere@fedia.io
        143·
        3 months ago

        I can understand being frustrated with democracy. It has many strengths, but efficiency isn’t one of them.

        When you see an injustice, you want it fixed NOW. Authoritarianism looks kinda good then, but ultimately it causes more problems than it solves.

        “Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.”

    • LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net
      146·
      3 months ago

      Marxism-Leninism is fundamentally a right-wing ideology. It’s a right-wing ideology that is very much at odds with the dominant right-wing ideology in the West, but if you blur your eyes and take a step back, you’ll see the same thinking at play. Once you realize this, the whole situation starts to make a lot more sense.

    • Beaver@lemmy.caOPEnglish
      545·
      3 months ago

      Its nice having terrible social skills sometimes to the point where I make people drop the mask quicker.

      • smoothbrain coldtakes@lemmy.ca
        565·
        3 months ago

        It also helps that nutomic and Dessalines are both certifiable.

        It’s kind of a shame. I really like the platform and the concepts inherent to federated social media, but it really sucks that the maintainers of the codebase are hostile to any ideology but their own.

        • Beaver@lemmy.caOPEnglish
          301·
          3 months ago

          I wanted to support them before but now I’m hoping someone forks their codebase.

          • XNX@slrpnk.net
            15·
            3 months ago

            Piefed is a beauty. Made to be easily to contribute to, great morals and focus on tools for safety, ability to subscribe to posts for notifications sorts like the forum days, compatible with lemmy and discourse forum federation iirc and the main developer seems really chill and like he cares about making a good and healthy platform

              • Rikudou_Sage@lemmings.world
                12·
                3 months ago

                There are several bad architectural decisions and when your architecture is wrong, the quality of the code itself doesn’t really matter (to be more specific, I was talking about architecture in my previous comment, not the code itself, I don’t know Rust so I can’t really comment on that).

                To fix the architecture, major parts would have to be rewritten, almost making it a different codebase, because pretty much no part would be left unturned.

      • Cyborganism@lemmy.ca
        401·
        3 months ago

        No I know about that.

        But what the fuck do trans have to do with the bourgeoisie???

        If anything most of the ones I know are anticapitalist.

        • Chamomile 🐑@furry.engineer
          483·
          3 months ago

          @cyborganism @GammaGames There’s a particular category of “leftist” who, to put it gently, have a greatly simplified view of the world in which “the only war is class war.” They regard social issues such as anti-racism, feminism, queer liberation as distractions from the “true” cause of bringing about a new economic system - unimportant at best, active interference invented by the ruling class at worst.

          Basically, they’re narrow-minded bigots.

          • The Cuuuuube@beehaw.orgEnglish
            19·
            3 months ago

            Which is so fucking dumb because they’re actively resisting the class awakening that we all need to have. That these divisions and culture wars we have are a distraction from the true communal love we could all experience and push to topple the hierarchical system. These fucking regressive morons are standing in the way of their own revolution

          • wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
            121·
            3 months ago

            I’d argue that they aren’t entirely wrong, just coming to the entirely wrong conclusion.

            It absolutely benefits the 1% to have people fighting about stuff that keeps them out if the crosshairs, but the solution isn’t to be an asshole and stamp out any attempts at progress in culture and acceptance. The solution is to accept people and progress cultural stuff faster to unite people better.

            If you’re going to be militant about the class war, don’t you want as many allies as possible? Within reason of course, don’t want bigoted assholes.

            • The Quuuuuill@slrpnk.netEnglish
              112·
              3 months ago

              That’s the thing. Dessalines and Nutomic are the bigoted assholes the rest of us should be telling to fuck right off because they’re getting in the way of our class awakening. They think they’re adovocating for true liberation when their way of going about it slows things down. They are tools of capital holders when they pull shit like this

            • Chamomile 🐑@furry.engineer
              2·
              3 months ago

              @wizardbeard Oh yeah, totally - it’s not like the 1% doesn’t use these things to its advantage. Don’t take my comment as making the mistake of ignoring that. It’s just myopic at best to act like other forms of oppression can be ignored as long as we ensure economic liberation. And a lot of the people spouting that opinion… well, there’s a reason they think bigotry isn’t a problem - they suck.

            • XNX@slrpnk.net
              131·
              3 months ago

              Not sure how that relates? Thats just Europeans being racist which is extremely common and irritating

              • pearable@lemmy.ml
                5·
                3 months ago

                I think all bigotry can be used as a wedge to divide working people from their own interests. I wouldn’t be surprised if Romani bigotry was used to control Europeans in the past. However, I think immigration is the most important wedge in the European context

  • Birbatron@lemmy.mlEnglish
    676·
    3 months ago

    As someone who just joined and picked .ml because it seemed generally leftist

    What the fuck?

    • barsquid@lemmy.world
      678·
      3 months ago

      It is generally leftist. Unfortunately you are probably imagining leftist economics but they want “leftist” authoritarianism. They despise capitalism. They love state capitalism. They will excuse any atrocities and human rights violations that occur as long as the country is extremely authoritarian and pretending to be economically left.

      They are historical revisionists as well. Admins are extremely fragile. They will ban you from every community for writing historically accurate facts. If you find this screenshot appalling you should preemptively switch to a different instance before they catch you doing wrongthink and ban you.

      Source: I had a lemmy.ml account for the same reasons as you.

        • Feathercrown@lemmy.worldEnglish
          171·
          3 months ago

          Only leftists are allowed to hate other leftists. Them’s the law 'round these parts, partner.

          • CoffeeJunkie@lemmy.world
            217·
            3 months ago

            Oh golly gee willikers, I looked it up & you are 1000% correct. 🫠

            I bend over, firmly grab my ankles, and say ORANGE MAN SO VERY BAD, in accordance with the invisible ink on the US Constitution. Which only the most awesome liberal elites know about, the rest or us just meander around in the dark, waiting for them to scream at us & enlighten us on the one true way to political salvation. 🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌

        • Katrisia@lemm.ee
          71·
          3 months ago

          Yes. It worries me that you haven’t found them. Either you have but you thought they were stupid anyway because of them being leftists, or you haven’t because you do not believe in any way in equality, solidarity, search for knowledge, and many other values the left stands for. This I find difficult to believe.

        • vga@sopuli.xyz
          13·
          3 months ago

          Well yes. There’s a smart kind of leftism too. The kind they had in the 70s and 80s. But it’s not very mainstream right now.

    • Wxnzxn@lemmy.ml
      111·
      3 months ago

      Yeah, I am too attached to my account because it’s several years old and was made when there were next to no instances running. But I can only shake my head at the amount of Marxist-Leninist nonsense that is at times pushed there, that unironically elevates what was a development of “Marxism” out of the material conditions of the Eastern Bloc as an imperialist sphere bent on market expansion and accumulation of national capital, into a religion-like orthodoxy.

      No, ideology that is nominally Marxist, and having an educated caste of decision-makers highly trained in your interpretation of it at the top won’t prevent capitalist dynamics and bring about communism, only the material base and changing it will, and your ideology will follow what your material base demands. And that had been expansion of national capital for the Eastern sphere since the revolution failed to link up with any industrialised nations in the 1920s. The elevation of Marxism into a basically teleological ideology, claiming that with subservience to the interests of national capital, there will be communism at the end (a promise broken over and over again), is completely understandable by looking at the Soviet and Chinese spheres of influence from a Marxist perspective.

      And even the structures put into place by Lenin were explicitly designed as for his own time and the conditions within the Russian Empire, not as an infallible orthodoxy, and things like Democratic Centralism explicitly contained open and free discussion before unity of action, which was just completely pushed away. Urgh, it’s sad to me, because I think a new, invigorated and organised communist movement is needed more than ever, but by redirecting it to the national interest of states like China (and even Russia, which isn’t even nominally communist, and just opposes western imperialism to impose its own imperialism - like choosing Germany over France in WWI, the exact shit Lenin fought against) instead of the international proletariat, just weakens it overall.

      • Socsa@sh.itjust.works
        61·
        3 months ago

        I mean there literally is one. European style social democracy and democratic socialism has made way more progress towards socialist ideals than anything inherited from the Leninist tradition. It’s just that the revolutionary fan service isn’t as good so the Orthodox MLs don’t like it very much.

        • jerkface@lemmy.caEnglish
          11·
          3 months ago

          Technology and social advances have increased the wealth and income disparity that the working class will tolerate without destroying the system.

    • vga@sopuli.xyz
      311·
      3 months ago

      Leftism doesn’t require trans activism. It happens there mostly due to tribalism, not because the ideology somehow makes it necessary.

        • vga@sopuli.xyz
          14·
          3 months ago

          I don’t exactly see why that’s a requirement. You mean because trans people usually need costly medical treatments?

          • Beaver@lemmy.caOPEnglish
            4·
            3 months ago

            Weaken work performance because of poor mental health will be much more costly in the long run for society.

            Healthcare is not a zero sum game and we can tax the rich much more to cover it all.

            • vga@sopuli.xyz
              1·
              3 months ago

              Oh right, I made the mistake of conflating “healthcare as a human right” with “public sector healthcare” because of the context. You and DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social are right of course.

  • kbal@fedia.io
    524·
    3 months ago

    “The bourgeoisie” trying to stir up controversy and divide people? No doubt that seems very far fetched to any serious Communist.

    • wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      8·
      3 months ago

      Yeah, it’s laughable that he thinks contradicting actions by those in power are strange. The whole point is to keep people squabbling amongst themselves about social issues and ignoring the constantly growing class divide going on.

      Both are important, but imo a poor trans person has more in common with a poor redneck than a poor redneck has in common with a rich white business owner. And everyone has more in common with each other than they do with any member of the true 1% (meaning not white landlords of one or two inherited properties, but the people who own organizations like Blackrock).

      Now if only we could get bigots to understand that instead of perpetuating more division between people.

      • kbal@fedia.io
        5·
        3 months ago

        That’s the right idea I think, but keep in mind that there probably do exist at least a few poor trans redneck business owners.

  • Beaver@lemmy.caOPEnglish
    496·
    3 months ago

    How are you going to get your first developer funded in donations when you say stuff like that?

    • Juniper (she/her) 🫐@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      685·
      3 months ago

      Yep, this just prevented me, a trans woman, from ever donating to the main Lemmy project. I’m severely disappointed. I’ll donate only to good instances with leadership I know aren’t phobic.

      This literally ignores the experiences of trans people, all of whom lost something in order to transition, and many everything. The system is being weaponized against us at every level. What an ignorant thing to say.

      • Beaver@lemmy.caOPEnglish
        231·
        3 months ago

        Right! Think about how two-spirited folks were loved and supported by the First Nations communities for thousands of years before Europeans stepped foot into turtle island.

        • The Cuuuuube@beehaw.orgEnglish
          91·
          3 months ago

          Bruuuh it frustrates me to no end how capitalism creates a culture of emptiness by scooping out of us all sense of community, compassion, and humanity. It takes everything worth living for away from us and holds it hostage from us, telling us we can have it if we spend the money, give it to the capital holders.

      • The Cuuuuube@beehaw.orgEnglish
        282·
        3 months ago

        Weird fucking thing for a leftist to do, isn’t it? Dessalines and Nutomic both claimed it was because they were free speech absolutists. Meanwhile saying China is performing a genocide against the Uigher people is a gaurunteed instaban with the explanation “orientalism”

        • poVoq@slrpnk.net
          10·
          3 months ago

          The actual claim was to keep these people on that instance to make defederation easier. Which doesn’t work, but AFAIK no one ever claimed to be “free speech absolutists”.

        • millie@beehaw.orgEnglish
          5·
          3 months ago

          That’s because they’re not leftists. Most of the tankies on Lemmy probably aren’t. I’m sure some of them are people who get swept up in the tide of favoring mockery over patience and compassion while actually believing leftist political positions, but it’s pretty clear what the bulk of them are doing.

          They’re corporate or authoritarian government plants trying to break the coalition of left and center. They’re doing everything they can to make both look unreasonable and unhinged in the eyes of the other. Demotivating leftists from endorsing centrists who lean their way, while making centrists feel targeted and derided by the left.

          It’s way easier to break coalitions and sew chaos than it is to drive engagement and unity. It literally takes less thinking, less precision, and less strategy.

        • BlackRose@slrpnk.net
          6·
          3 months ago

          I just found out that beehaw is not on their list of Servers. Does anyone know why? Today the list is not called recomended instances anymore.

          edit: found this

    • VirtualOdour@sh.itjust.works
      34·
      3 months ago

      People who don’t like free speech on here are sorely confused as to the purpose of activitypub and lemmy, they were explicitly designed to be censorship resistant so that people could express controversial opinions without being silenced - they already understand that people who dislike free speech won’t support them, thankfully this project doesn’t need much support and there are some free speech supporters that do donate even if they don’t agree with every single opinion of every dev involved.

    • Chozo@fedia.io
      261·
      3 months ago

      What is that?

      EDIT: I posted before Googling it, because I assumed it would just give me Naruto results. Turns out it took me to this browser extension. Thanks for sharing!

      Edit again: Now I’m extra dumb because that’s not even from Naruto.

        • Eldritch@lemmy.worldEnglish
          6·
          3 months ago

          Shinigami are a general Japanese concept. The soul reaper’s from bleach were also referred to as shinigami. Basically kami/spirit of death. I did watch death note aeons ago. And the character attached to the death note was also a shinigami. Though I don’t remember anything special in reference to it’s eyes? Meh I probably just missed it or forgot. Its been almost 20 years XD

          • Beaver@lemmy.caOPEnglish
            6·
            3 months ago

            The eyes tell you how many days someone has left in Death Note.

            So if someone shows up as red they’re more likely to be an antivaxxer as they’re more likely to be ignoring science, their days are going to be fewer as a result of their ignorance.

          • SteveFromMySpace@lemmy.blahaj.zone
            473·
            3 months ago

            Honestly tankies are the hardest political group for me to understand. I disagree with right wing shitheads but I get the core underpinnings even if they’re heinous. Tankies glorify unambiguously evil people for reasons I cannot understand. It is truly detached from reality, as are they when you bring up things like Tienaman Square

            • UnityDevice@startrek.website
              322·
              3 months ago

              It’s easy to understand them when you realise that their entire ideology starts at “anything the US does or says is bad” and continues from there.

              • The US supports Taiwan and is against China? China good, Taiwan bad.
              • The US supports Ukraine and is against Russia? Russia good, Ukraine bad.
              • Israel, Palestine, same thing
              • Bosnian and Rwandan genocide happened? Well the US says so, therefore they didn’t.
              • NATO bombed Serbia over their attempted genocide in Kosovo. NATO is the US, so Serbia didn’t do anything wrong, but Kosovo is bad.
              • And so on, and so on…

              Once you look at it through that lens, even their most wild takes suddenly become very consistent.

                • The Quuuuuill@slrpnk.netEnglish
                  131·
                  3 months ago

                  The US has been the grand champion of capitalism. That is a fair criticism to level against us. Its a criticism most of us share. We’ve done some fucked up shit and acted as a force multiplier making smaller conflicts into bigger conflicts with more killing and more suffering. We do this less because our politicians believe in doing the right thing and more because it maintains to neocolonial status quo. Where I draw the line with tankies though is that they are ALSO engaging in force multiplying neocolonialism. Russia is invading Ukraine right now because Putin is big mad about losing control of soviet colonial holdings. What I advocate for is a dismantling of both US capitalist colonialism AND Soviet Bolshevik colonialism. You can’t be a tanky and Anticolonial, too

            • mashbooq@infosec.pub
              15·
              3 months ago

              They’re Soviet conservatives. So they have all the shit takes conservatives in the US have, they just hate the US instead Iran or whoever the US hates today.

            • psud@aussie.zone
              71·
              3 months ago

              So picture a political compass. “The right” think they’re in a corner marked as pro corporations/pro individual freedom, but are actually not quite there given their desire for government to control other people

              Most of “the left” are anti-corporate more or less and disagree on individual freedom.

              Tankies are pseudo-intellectual nuts. They are orthogonal to the political compass

            • pearable@lemmy.ml
              3·
              3 months ago

              I think it has to do with complete distrust in western news and government (WNG). They can discount anything WNG says; especially when, it goes against their belief that the US is bad.

              I believe we live in the most sophisticated propaganda machine ever developed but the folks who are a part of it mostly don’t lie. They’ve got the same problem the tankies have but reversed. The folks who work in WNG believe the US is good. They naturally distrust and minimize any info that would conflict with their beliefs.

              There’s a lot of cognitive dissonance.

              The only way I can navigate my belief in the fundamental inaccuracy of information is acknowledging it and accepting I don’t have enough info to be certain a lot of the time.

      • FundMECFSResearch@lemmy.blahaj.zone
        613·
        3 months ago

        His argumentation is dumb.

        But even more so, IF the bourgeoisie were promoting pro-trans stuff. It would NOT be suprising that the bourgeoisie would ALSO be promoting anti-trans stuff. It fans the flame of this “culture war”which according to communist theory, would distract people from realising the “true divide” in society is class, and workers to unite.

        TLDR: He’s clearly a conservative of some sort because his logic is incompatible with communist theory.

        • vga@sopuli.xyz
          8·
          3 months ago

          This is in fact what Russian bot factories are actually doing. And not just around trans activism, but around everything they can use to increase hatred and decrease social cohesion in the west. Here’s one source that talks about this problem: https://www.amazon.com/Putins-Trolls-Frontlines-Russias-Information/dp/1632461293

          They’re doing it pretty well. As a practical example, a lot of the discussion revolving around this topic is powerfully pushing me towards distrusting trans activists, and somewhat towards distrusting trans people in general. There’s something deeply irritating about the fundamentalism of it all – it reminds me of the kind of religiosity that we had to fight against a lot in the 1900s and of course earlier.

          I need to remind myself constantly in these threads that trans rights are human rights and that it’s the discussion that’s fucked, not the people.

          • Omniraptor@lemm.ee
            2·
            3 months ago

            hm can you link to an example of posts that fits the description “pushing you to distrust trans activists”?

                • vga@sopuli.xyz
                  31·
                  3 months ago

                  Great article, thanks for that.

                  Quote from its 4th section:

                  then I ought to accept an unexpected man or two deep inside the conceptual boundaries of what would normally be considered female if it’ll save someone’s life.

                  I think the confusion (in my case) is that even though I think male and female are well-defined concepts based on biology, this fact does not preclude doing something special for the benefit of the remaining 1% who don’t fit the definition. And it also doesn’t preclude having a sexual identity that differs from the biological ones.

                  So I don’t understand the leap from what I’m saying to accusing me of being transphobic, and by extension, evil in a somewhat religious sense. This is where it seems to me that the discussion is fucked.

                  And the accusation of being anti-scientific I thought was just wrong, but that’s fine.

      • XNX@slrpnk.net
        47·
        3 months ago

        Puts transphobes in quotation marks, bans everything he considers “sinophobia” even if you just mention literal policy in china. why are tankies so weird about so much stuff

          • Beaver@lemmy.caOPEnglish
            151·
            3 months ago

            They do not understand the concept of gaining grassroots’ support through the use of education.

          • XNX@slrpnk.net
            152·
            3 months ago

            Don’t equate authoritarianism with mental disorders or disabilities. Authoritarians love targeting the disabled and it has nothing to do with it. People being miseducated, propagandized, and their insecurities leading them to want authoritarians in control has nothing to do with mental disorders

            • The Quuuuuill@slrpnk.netEnglish
              144·
              3 months ago

              I really mean it though. Authoritarianism is a trauma response to being abused as a child. Our brains when raised in an authoritarian household that punishes us through physical violence like spanking becomes much more likely to seek authority from positions of power in adulthood, and if there becomes a power vaccuum or a shift away from top down authority, we transform ourselves from the follower to the leader. Whether or not authoritarians victimize people with mental disorders and disabilities is immaterial. They victimize every single group they can marginalize because they were ultimately empty from the childhood trauma that they’ve glossed over and turned into a positive aspect of their upbringing. Anytime you hear “my parents spanked me, and I turned out find” you are hearing a twisted mind grappling with an extreme trauma and justifying the shitty person they’ve become because if they don’t, it means they haven’t survived their core trauma yet

              • GatanKult@lemmy.world
                16·
                3 months ago

                freudianism is pseudoscience, as is most discourse around “child traumas” (spanking = trauma? really? that’s absurd concept creep). Just look at the recovered memory movement.

                While it often took weeks or months, by all accounts, the therapists were remarkably successful at convincing patients that their minds had hidden horrible abuse memories.

                because childhood memories remain in the liminal period of awareness, you can convince yourself that personality is built on childhood experiences. It’s an insane tabula rasa and simply not true.

                wants strong government = beaten as a child is a terrible pop-sci take, exactly the same as chuds saying all gay men were molested as children

                • The Quuuuuill@slrpnk.netEnglish
                  8·
                  3 months ago
                  1. Yes. Fruedianism is psuedoscience. That’s why I’d never deal in it.
                  2. Saying childhood traumas don’t shape us is fucking embarrassing when you’re trying to present yourself as being in the know
                  3. Saying spanking isn’t traumatic makes me think I don’t even have to deal with the rest of what you say
                  4. Yes. Recovered memory is a bunch of bunked up bullshit. Again. I’d never deal in it. You really are focused on tearing down what I’m saying based on shit I never said
                  5. Yo, you think fucking cihldhood memories end when you start having more awareness? We’re talking about the entire lived experience of being a child in an adults household. That shit ends when you leave for college. Again. You’re really focused on saying I’m saying something I’m not saying, so actually, genuinely, fuck off.
                  6. Saying this is a pop-sci take is probably the only real thing you said in all this. And there’s a difference between “wants a strong government” and “wants a dictator” and that’s what I was addressing. I’ll drop some links and let people coming across this decide which of us is basing what they’re saying off current understandings of how brains work
                • jerkface@lemmy.caEnglish
                  7·
                  3 months ago

                  (spanking = trauma? really? that’s absurd concept creep).

                  Please stop. Anything can be traumatic. Two people can have the same experience; one receives trauma and another does not. You likely know people who have trauma from parental violence. This isn’t rhetorical, the things you say affect people.

      • Goodie@lemmy.world
        15·
        3 months ago

        Lost me at ‘Why do they need to be “rooted out”?’.

        Welp, they’re a piece of shit.

        • jerkface@lemmy.caEnglish
          6·
          3 months ago

          Yeah kind of buried the lede, you don’t need to unpack political ideologies to understand the hatred in the first response.

        • Beaver@lemmy.caOPEnglish
          338·
          3 months ago

          That is a false equivalence as I did not state hate speech

          • Azzu@lemm.ee
            79·
            3 months ago

            I’m not sure how this is hate speech from nutomic? They’re not necessarily saying anything bad about trans people as far as I can see, only that the bourgeoisie have nothing to do with it? Or what am I missing here

              • Azzu@lemm.ee
                53·
                3 months ago

                Ok sorry I’m not seeing it, which terms? Genuinely asking

                • Beaver@lemmy.caOPEnglish
                  144·
                  3 months ago

                  “Biological men” is a transphobic term to describe trans women

  • theneverfox@pawb.socialEnglish
    371·
    3 months ago

    Well, those were certainly words.

    As a reminder, luckily code does not mean understanding… It’s just the right words in the right order. The code itself is blameless, it’s not great code or anything (and on request, I can be extremely precise in my criticisms), but it’s good enough to be used for good things

    • Comment105@lemm.ee
      729·
      3 months ago

      Communists are being pretty explicitly anti-liberal, and they make that a point pretty often.

      And is becomes clear eventually as you see their posts and read their comments that these people aren’t misunderstanding liberals, they’re pretty aware that both in the meaning of the word and in practice, “liberals” generally want people to be free from shackles and free to do most anything. Typically summarized along the lines of “as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone, do what you want”.

      Communists don’t agree with liberalism.

      Communists want to demand much more of people and permit much less. They have much more in common with Putin’s extant but inflated voterbase than they like to admit. Even with Putin not being a communist.

      • coldy@lemmy.world
        224·
        3 months ago

        Just go ahead and conflate outright tankies and ML’s with the entire communist space, sure, whatever. You ended up with “Communists want to take your toothbrush” level of analysis just because you paint too broadly.

        The problem with liberalism isn’t that they champion liberty, it’s that they are woefully incapable of challenging systems of power, and that just enables the present biases and power imbalances in the system, ultimately always leading to fascist tendencies and sometimes an actual slip into fascism.

        And that’s the beef the communist community at large has with liberals. They would theoretically be an ally, but will actually align with the fascists more often than with socialists/communists because they know fascists will ultimately still preserve upper class business interests.

        I won’t say that your critique isn’t salient, it does fit in with what a lot of tankies seem to believe, as they regularly champion state power, but it always irks me when people only interact with online jackasses and then assume that all people who subscribe to a similar ideology share in those opinions.

        • Comment105@lemm.ee
          49·
          3 months ago

          Communists regularly act like they couldn’t be militant for liberal ideas. That the very act of getting serious requires dropping the tricolore banner and shedding the rainbow cloak to wield the hammer and sickle.

          As if specific allyship to the repestedly failed methods of communism is necessary for the fight, but fighting to reimplement and expand on the occassionally very successful methods of liberal, welfare focused, regulatory and tax heavy Europe and America is seen as completely nonviable.

          Spitting on pre-Reagan nation builders and embracing miserable failures whose only success was rallying and overthrowing, with no intelligent followup. Communism is dogmatic, it is stupid. It is technically bad at solving the problem of inequality.

          As if everyone else who has given much thought to solving it was wrong, unless they embrace Marx specifically, and embrace him wholly, not just in part for a few important controbutions in an otherwise not very useful body of literary works.

          • coldy@lemmy.world
            93·
            3 months ago

            This almost reads like satire in the context of my previous comment. I say you paint with too broad a stroke and don’t engage with communist ideas but only with a subset, you double down. I say liberals can’t grapple with the inherent flaws of the system and are unwilling to think outside it, you demonstrate it.

            Where do you think you got the ideas for worker’s rights and heavy taxation of the wealthy? You think social democracy isn’t just one facet of the socialist critique of capitalism? You think you just fell out of the coconut tree?

            I have no interest in adjuticating your point of view seeing as you’re unwilling to enage with mine, but the fact that you think all communists are marxist-leninists is comical. Even more, there are plenty of communists who aren’t even marxists. And not just communists, the whole left of liberal space is far more diverse than that. There’s anarchists, there’s anarcho-communists, there’s mutualists, syndicalists, on and on we go. There have been decades upon decades of work and thought put into the current, and it looks far more different than you could apparently fathom.

            Once again, I ask you to stop looking at what internet ML chambers and anti-communist propaganda claims communism to be. There’s a lot more out there that you might perhaps agree with, if you were willing to engage in anything more than milquetoast tweaks to an inherently unjust system.

            • Comment105@lemm.ee
              23·
              3 months ago

              I say specifically Marx gets credit, but he is not a man with endless brilliant solutions.

              And the communists I talk about are the ones I see. The core of the movement. That includes the majority that are much more ignorant than I, whose main interest in these ideologies is purely vibes and aesthetics with a couple of arguments stored away in the back of their mind.

              Not the niche thinkers who most of them haven’t read.

              These are our letters to eachother. Conversations that may as well find an audience of one as a million. Those who print their words on paper are not nearly as prolific as those who share them freely in this environment.

              You lose modern politics reliably because you do not understand them. Your only surviving stock to champion the cause are either small and struggling, or they are no longer your champions at all. The movement never lasts, because it’s passionate, but stupid.

        • Comment105@lemm.ee
          23·
          3 months ago

          I’m sure you’re not. Conservative and authoritarian is the way the middle of this century is going.