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They’ve been saying this for years, the problem is that none of them trust each other’s currencies or banking systems enough to do it. Nobody trusts China’s economic stats. They really, really want to get off the dollar. But they can’t figure out how. Meanwhile, Bitcoin (with lightning):
- trustlessly sends a transaction across the globe in under a second for pennies in fees. You don’t have to worry if “your bank trusts their bank”, Bitcoin will secure the transaction.
- Is immune from influence or corruption. China or whoever can’t make Bitcoin print extra coins for them, spend money that they don’t have the key for, or otherwise do anything it isn’t designed to do. The protocol is enforced by the network.
- All you need is a cell phone with a halfway reliable internet connection, no need for complex banking infrastructure.
- It’s been doing this global transaction role for 15 years without a single bank holiday, a single hour of downtime, or a single hack. It. Just. Works.
- For <1% of global electricity usage, mostly from renewables since off-peak renewable generation is the cheapest energy around. It helps incentivize adding more renewables to the grid by ensuring there is always a buyer for any surplus supply. And it helps keeps rates lot for regular ratepayers through that same mechanism. Moving value around costs energy and human time, we just don’t see headlines like “WESTERN UNION AGAIN CONSUMING TERAWATTS A DAY OF ELECTRICITY WE’RE ALL DOOMED” because there’s nothing novel about remittance services using tons of energy and making their customers pay exorbitant fees.
Smaller countries like Ecuador are using this technology to bring Bitcoin to millions of people who don’t have access to (or don’t trust) banking infrastructure. Smaller countries can now participate in the global economy without using the USD and retain more of their sovereignty in the process. They have a plan B. And they don’t have to run their own central bank or having stable enough political/legal ifrastructure for a banking system. They just need old android phones and 3G connections.
Doesn’t bitcoins blockchain use some sort of consensus algorithm, so if one party has more than 50% of the compute power they control everything?
51% but thats slower so ideally around 66% so you can make quicker faster changes. but yeah you ll have the same issues with fiat at that point.
66% doesn’t give you any more ability than 51% does. It doesn’t change the speed, it just increases the cost. There would be no reason to hit 66% to do a 51% attack.
Yes, so does a democracy. Answered here in another comment on this thread https://lemmy.ml/post/17799179/12217017
Nobody trusts China’s economic stats.
Except the IMF, World Bank, Moody, Standard and Poor, etc.
Meanwhile, Bitcoin
lol
Except the IMF, World Bank, Moody, Standard and Poor, etc.
They don’t trust it, they just have no other figures to work off. China has a long history of faking numbers or suddenly stopping the publishing of numbers when it can make the party look bad. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-08-16/china-is-hiding-more-and-more-data-from-the-rest-of-the-world
lol
Ok, be mad. A 15 year trend of growth on average no matter how you measure it: market cap, number of nodes, transaction volume, transaction capacity, etc. If you have though Bitcoin was a scam or a bubble about to burst or whatever, you’ve been wrong 15 years in a row, maybe it’s worth reconsidering.
They don’t trust it, they just have no other figures to work off.
That’s why they publish it. Not like there are (western adaptations of) the Li Keqiang Index
- At least have the decency to post the archive link https://archive.md/sgBQK
- Youth unemployment in the article:
Calculating the actual employment rate is complex and it’s plausible the government decided the changing nature of the economy and labor patterns means their current model isn’t accurately reflecting reality.
Obtuse way to say that the category 16-24 olds are studying and not part of the labour force
- Landsales: Communists don’t like speculation with real estate and land. Shocker. Not like they’ve been announcing a shift away from real estate to EV/Solar Panels/etc.
- Currency Reserves, Bond Transactions, Academic Information, Politicians’ Biographies:
President Xi Jinping’s ideological battle with the US has also motivated Beijing to ringfence data it believes could advantage the Biden administration.
Based.
A 15 year trend of growth on average no matter how you measure it: market cap, number of nodes, transaction volume, transaction capacity, etc.
If you think that’s the critique of bitcoin then you have been blinded by techbros optimizim on the tech. Also it’s funny how you wave away bitcoin using up 1% of global electricity usage lol
Oh, well if the billionaire rag says china is lying, it must be true, for sure
yeah but whats stopping rich people from working together to get 60% of the network and then change things as they deem fit?
Firstly, rich people already do this with our existing currency systems. So that has to be what we’re comparing against. And nobody has done this because there’s zero benefit to doing so.
The thing you’re talking about is a 51% attack and the answer is:
- The cost of doing so, which continues to increase and is around a trillion dollars currently. Even if you had the money, there are very significant logistical hurdles which make it difficult and means people would see it coming a mile away. They don’t have to buy coins, they have to buy energy and equipment to turn that energy into mining and they have to keep buying energy as long as they want their attack to continue. That trillion dollar figure is for one block worth of attack (10 minutes). The longer you attack, the more the cost per block goes up too.
- There is no benefit to doing so. The second your attack ends, the network reverts to the true “main chain”, the system is designed to be really robust
There are only two things you can do with a 51% attack
- “double-spend” meaning you spend the same coins twice. But if somebody is going to trade you 1 trillion dollars of stuff, they’re going to wait for more than a few blocks confirmation. The scenarios where this makes any economic sense for anybody to attempt are basically zero.
- Delay (censor) transactions which will go through the second your attack ends
Even if you controlled 51% of the network you cannot:
- Spend money you don’t have the key for
- Increase the supply beyond 21 million coins
- Otherwise make invalid transactions
Because all other nodes would reject your transactions as invalid.
Youre just gonna recreate what we have today with more energy usage. So why not fix the core societal problem?
So that if (hopefully not when) China invades Taiwan, they won’t get hit with sanctions as bad as Russia did.
Omfg the brain rot it takes to write this.
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China has repeatedly stated that they have zero intention of invading their own island and killing their own countrymen. It’s only Americans that keep repeating this lie that China wants to invade Taiwan.
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Russia has been placed under the most comprehensive sanctions in moderns history, including the USA seizing assets in violation of established sanction rules, and Russia’s economy is growing in both absolute and globay relative terms, while Russia’s military is larger than before the SMO started and still out producing the entire Western MIC combined.
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Meanwhile, the USA has attempted to engage in economic warfare with China and has lost every single time. China continues to dominate the top ~50 hi tech research areas, continues to outpace every Western nation on all meaningful economic growth rates include financial, purchasing power, infrastructure development, etc.
There is no world outside of the USA propaganda cesspool where your comment even remotely matches reality.
Keep typing this shit up, very good use of your time.
Remember: the actions of these countries speak louder than any words.
If the actions of a country is what you’re going to judge them by, it blows my mind that you would trust literally anything the USA says about anything going on in the world.
Who said I trust the USA?
USA is the only one saying China wants to invade Taiwan and they’re the only who are saying sanctions are harming Russia.
It’s pretty easy to find direct reports from the Taiwanese government being reported?
TAIPEI, May 15 (Reuters) - China’s military has sailed and flown closer to Taiwan in recent weeks than it has before, and staged mock attacks on foreign vessels ahead of the inauguration of the island’s next president on Monday, according to Taiwanese government reports.
You mean China is doing military exercises in it’s own territory? Wild! I wonder if Alaska should be worried about the USA invading it. What do you think?
No no no that doesn’t count you see Taiwanese “government” ist just proxy of American dogs God bless
Most of the world agrees that:
- There is only one China
- Taiwan is a part of China
- The Communist Party of China is the legitimate recognized government of China
So what’s the problem here?
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Thats their goal, they want insulated within their own economic system.
🤣 Yeah, good luck with that.
Not sure what this comment means, BRICS has been rising in membership and stability.
Westerners thinking the rest of the world can’t possible get on without them will never stop being hilarious.
Look at Russia’s economic growth in spite of the sanctions.
There’s a world economy outside US control and it is only growing. Where do you think the inflation is coming from?
That’s the thing about a war time economy, you produce one tank, and BOOM you’ve added $3.5MM to your GDP. A single SU-35? About 16MM added to GDP.
You can’t eat tanks and jets though, the labor and resources used to maintain a war footing are vast, and must be poached from other areas of the economy. The longer you maintain this posture, the more dramatic the contraction.
Gazprom posted a loss for the first time in decades. They sell one of the most profitable substances ever discovered by man and they still couldn’t turn a profit… despite how little the sanctions are impacting them, no less!
The military industry is around 6% of Russian economy, it’s not a war time economy LMFAO. By contrast, by the end of WW2, around 40% of US economy was devoted to the military. That’s what an actual war time economy looks like. It’s absolutely hilarious how people just keep parroting this nonsense without thinking about it even for a second.
The main reason for such rapid growth of Russian economy is due to the fact that decoupling from the west created a lot of economic niches to be filled. Meanwhile, the west effectively doing capital controls for Russia forced the oligarchs to invest their money domestically.
Turning take in a storage base into tanks destroyed in Ukraine is not economic growth, dispite what gdp would indicate.
Thanks for the regular reminder of how stupid the average American is 👍please enjoy your crayons responsibly.
You think tanks do contribute, or that Russia is growing into new war unrelated sectors?
Russia is obviously growing into new war unrelated sectors because the military industry accounts for only 6% of Russian GDP. Plenty of economic niches have been opened up by decoupling from the west, and many of those are being filled by domestic businesses. That’s where majority of the growth is coming from.
Could you give an example of these new sectors? And what is the real gdp growth, taking into account the actual inflation?
Here’s some analysis of Russia’s economic situation https://youtu.be/ecdxs8Al424
Manufacturing, food production, research, tech, you name it. Meanwhile, I’ll reiterate my advice that I gave you last time. Go back through the channels you watch, look at their past predictions, and compare how they hold up today. If a lot of what they say turns out to be bullshit, as is the case with this channel, then maybe find a more reliable source. You seem to be a real sucker for these propaganda channels. Weren’t you peddling Perun last time?
Go read up on the percentage of the Russian GDP spent on the military then delete your comment. 😂
About 10% of gdp vs 3 to 4% pre war?
https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/russias-unprecedented-war-budget-explained
Again, even if you inflate it to 10%, that’s very clearly not a war economy. 90% of the economy isn’t oriented towards the war, and the war has practically no impact on day to day lives of the vast majority of the people.
It’s oriented towards the war, but it’s not a total war economy yet because the population wouldn’t tolerate it. It’s similar to the US at war in Vietnam, spending only got up to 8% to 10% of gdp.
Most of US economy isn’t productive manufacturing output, it’s stuff like service industry, software shops, financial economy, etc. Some of it, such as the health insurance industry, is actively harmful to society. There’s a great article explaining how US lost most of its productive economy at this point.
https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2021/08/the-value-of-nothing-capital-versus-growth/
Industrial output in US accounts for something like 15% of the overall economy, and steel production levels are comparable to Russia. That’s a pretty good proxy for the size of industry in a country. So, when you compare US military spending to the productive economy in the country, then it’s a very high percentage of the industrial GDP.
Also, the article you linked counts all the military adjacent economy to get to the 10% number, US military spending would also look a lot higher if we did that. US defense spending is currently well over $1 trillion a year.
https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/tom-dispatch-america-defense-budget-bigger-than-you-think/
Meanwhile, US industrial output is around $2 trillion.
Why not they’re consumables/disposable /s
Russia is in for a harsh wakeup when the Ukrainian war ends (or in 2026 if the war is still ongoing IMO). Their economy is “looking good” right now only because it has been switched to a war economy, and the Kremlin injects tons of cash in it, but lots of it isn’t useful for the russians, it’s just getting destroyed in the war.
Also the ruble is close to a dead currency, nobody wants to trade in it any more.
I implore you to learn what a war economy actually is. Spending 6% of the GDP on military industry is not it. Here’s a starter for you https://online.norwich.edu/online/about/resource-library/cost-us-wars-then-and-now
By financial system they still mean a swift/Cips/sfms/spfs alternative?
They mean a supranational currency aimed at transforming international trade settlement that sounds very similar to the idea of Bancor that Keynes proposed. The key idea is to establish a common unit of account and clearing system for international transactions. This would prevent the dominance of national currencies in international trade, promoting a more equitable financial system that’s not dominated by the currency of any single country.
This concept would tackle persistent trade imbalances by incentivizing countries to maintain balanced trade, as excessive surpluses or deficits would incur penalties. The idea also has potential to enhance financial stability by countering speculative capital flows that often destabilized exchange rates and caused financial crises.
They should start thinking of a plug and play system similar to activity pub for all that finance old fashioned system
That’s sort of what Bancor is, in programming terms you can think of it as a common protocol that you can adapt your currency to, and then it can be used with anybody who’s also implementing this protocol.
I wonder what kind of discussions take place when they implement these kind protocols (thinking of swift):
- we want to avoid dirty money banks? No, that’s ok
- we decide who can enter this network based on the fee they’ll pay
- we have to crush any competitors in the world, we’ll deal all transactions, it’s not that complicated, little effort for big control
I think the interesting part with the Bancor approach is that it would avoid a lot of these problems since it’s strictly a settlement currency.
