These kinds of charts are a bit dangerous, as it will be used by anti-EU folk in net contributing countries to say look at how much money we can save when we leave the EU. But this looks only at money being shipped back and forth. The EU has so much benefits in terms of trade and collaboration, it’s a steal at any price.
All people have to do to refute the leavers is point to the UK
These people are usually reality deniers, so showing them anything is a no go.
And you know how they do it too.
First they do a whole FUD campaign, which get the people riled up and polarized. Up till the point that it doesn’t matter what the truth is, it’s tribalism, us against them etc. This phase is in full swing in Europe right now. Next they say well what if we do a non binding referendum? It shows the people we are actively taking an interest and we get to see what people think. If everyone votes remain, the issue is done and buried. Then leading up to the referendum they do a massive misinformation campaign, with TV ads, social media ads and posts, etc. Everything they can do to misinform the public, with Russia footing the bill for most of it. Most people aren’t interested enough to dive into such a complex topic (and I don’t blame them, it’s very complicated), so they’ll go off their gut and their gut is influenced by their experience in the world and on social media, so they will vote exit. After the referendum is done and the outcome is 50/50, they’ll go yell: “THE PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN”. And before you know it your whole country goes to shit and you are leaving the EU and basically committing economic suicide. By the time people realize what happened, it’s much too late and all the shitbags responsible have gone away.
If you told me this before Brexit, I would have laughed and told you it’s total BS. But then it happened in real life and I don’t know how to deal with that.
It would be interesting to see this chart when the UK was included.
The UK would have been on par with France.
Ugh this country is so dumb
😢
Exactly. Germany makes way more than 25 billion Euro by being able to freely trade with neighbours.
Not to mention the fact that the €'s low value makes german goods much more competitive for international export.
Also by improving struggling countries it means you have more and stronger markets to sell to. When you empower your neighboring countries everyone is safer and stronger.
But this looks only at money being shipped back and forth.
Not even that. It only looks at money being shipped back and forth via one specific channel.
Not surprised about Hungary, but hoooly FUCK, what’s going on in Poland?
It’s a big country with large regions that are still comparatively poor and agricultural. The latter two factors are what the EU pays for and the first works as a multiplicator.
Per capita it looks a bit different. According bpd.de the main recipient per capita in 2022 was Estonia with 677 Euros per capita and year and the main contributor is indeed Germany with 237 Euros. Poland “only” gets 279 Euros per person and year.
Agriculture is a great point overlooked in this chart.
EU puts a lot of money into this, and Poland being a great exporter for this, they also receives alot from EU to be able to do this.
Why are we doing it then, if it’s a net negative? It’s not, because we can all get our bread (literally) this way. And Poland farmers can make a living making the country richer.
All countries get agricultural subsidies and Poland is not one of the big ones. They sit on place 5 with all 4 before them production at least twice as much. (see here, page 10)
War in Ukraine. A whole fuckload of people that seek asylum in Poland for obvious reasons.
40 million people + communism.
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Well, duh.
But it used to be behind the Iron Curtain.
None of the former Eastern Bloc countries are net contributors in this chart. Greece, Portugal, and Spain were also dictatorships not that long ago. Cyprus there’s the whole Greek military Junta and Turkish invasion thing.
The only other net recipients are Malta (which doesn’t receive much), and Luxemburg and Belgium. They host a lot of EU institutions.
East Germany
Love the former East Germany, lived there for a while, but it’s still deprived even after the federal state pumping loads of money into it. I suspect West Germany’s crumbling infrastructure is in part caused by the burden of absorbing East Germany.
But it’s not an independent country, so it’s hidden in these figures. Germany’s had to shoulder that burden on its own.
Cost trillions. West Germany shouldered that burden, but West German companies also profited from it. Eg. not as if there were private East German companies to build motorways to western standards.
PiS combine socialist economics with one-party control of state institutions, so while their rule has technically not been communist, it has rhymed with it.
More authoritarian kleptocracy, communism is a misnomer.
Would be nice to have the same data per capita.
statistia-netcontrib.csv
country,netcontrib DE,25572 FR,12380 NL,6929 IT,3337 SE,2826 DK,1766 AT,1540 FI,1109 IE,703 MT,-14 CY,-172 SI,-386 EE,-729 LT,-860 SK,-1398 LV,-1544 BG,-1727 HR,-1746 ES,-1946 LU,-2020 CZ,-2853 BE,-2950 PT,-3132 RO,-4096 HU,-4206 GR,-4278 PL,-11910
eu-contribution-per-capita.r
if (!require("pacman")) install.packages("pacman") pacman::p_load( countrycode, dplyr, ggdark, ggplot2, r2country ) abs <- read.csv("statista-netcontrib.csv",header = TRUE) abs2 <- cbind(abs,name = countrycode(abs$country,"iso2c","country.name")) df <- inner_join(country_names, abs2) df2 <- inner_join(country_population, df) df2$percap <- df2$netcontrib/df2$population2023*1000000 df3 <- arrange(df2,percap) ggplot(df3, aes(x = percap, y = reorder(name, percap))) + geom_bar(stat = "identity") + dark_theme_gray() + ylab("Country") + xlab("Euros per capita") + scale_x_continuous(breaks = scales::pretty_breaks(n = 20)) + geom_text(aes(label = percap)) ggsave("euros-percap.png")
Sorry about the broken escaping of the angle brackets (“<” is “<”) in the source; Lemmy is, regrettably, broken on that at the moment.
EDIT: Fixed Latvia country code error.
EDIT2: And Austria country code error.
Also, a Markdown table rendition:
eu-contribution-per-capita-markdown.r
if (!require("pacman")) install.packages("pacman") pacman::p_load( countrycode, dplyr, r2country, simplermarkdown ) abs <- read.csv("statista-netcontrib.csv",header = TRUE) abs2 <- cbind(abs,name = countrycode(abs$country,"iso2c","country.name")) df <- inner_join(country_names, abs2) df2 <- inner_join(country_population, df) df2$percap <- df2$netcontrib/df2$population2023*1000000 df3 <- arrange(df2,-percap) md_table(df3)
name percap Netherlands 386.91124 Germany 302.86855 Denmark 297.09908 Sweden 267.98643 Finland 199.90810 France 181.71677 Austria 168.68113 Ireland 136.52768 Italy 56.76638 Malta -26.94577 Spain -40.25217 Slovenia -182.27546 Cyprus -187.34343 Romania -214.99549 Belgium -250.73894 Slovakia -257.60767 Bulgaria -267.84703 Portugal -299.21568 Lithuania -300.05251 Poland -315.86485 Greece -408.10926 Hungary -438.25808 Croatia -449.01298 Estonia -533.72029 Latvia -819.79399 Luxembourg -3056.85909 This is very clever. Is Lemmy actually running the code to achieve this, or did you paste it just so other people can replicate the process?
Nah, I just pasted it so that other people can reproduce.
statistia-netcontrib.csvis using some weird country code that isn’t ISO 3166-2, because it’s got what I assume to be Latvia with the codeLAwhich is actually Laos, and that’s reflected on your chart too – I was initially a bit puzzled as to why Laos was listed as being in the EU. At a quick glance it seems to be the only weird one thoughThat’s just me not knowing my country codes. Over here, “LA” is generally Los Angeles. I’ll fix it; thanks.
EDIT: Also, Austria appears to be “AT” rather than “AU”. One more fix.
Ah I thought you pulled that from some Eurostat database and they were using wonky country codes. The AU / AT mixup is a classic one, and since the spelling of Austria and Australia is so close it’s easy to miss that mistake – just like I did
When you look closely, the most undemocratic of them are also taking the most money…
The only truly undemocratic country on that list is Hungary.
Poland isn’t much better
True. Democracy index:
Poland is rank 46
Hungary is rank 56
Both have the categorization FLAWED DEMOCRACY
We’ll see, they just got a new governemnt, I hope the best for them.
Hoping for the best and preparing for the wost is the way of life.
As of now they are undemocratic as hell.
New PM is pro eu and the coalition is democratic. A lot of the judiciary corruption that happened is going to get reversed fast.
Day to day it’s not really undemocratic, it was mostly about popular issues to solidify right wing outrage.
Still, I’m glad it’s over.
We’re there elections in Poland recently? What were the results?
Right “won” but progressives have a majority coalition that just elected a PM. We should be ok.
It’s not all in leftism, but they are in the government, first time since before WW2.
In previous elections “left” was just previous regime surviviors.
Isn’t a rotten apple enough to spoil the whole basket? At least we have this proverb in my country…
Meanwhile France is doing a police state and Italy elected fascists…
Poland and hungary are constantly complaining about the EU and vetooing laws too
Interesting. The red bars almost exclusively belong to nations that had authoritarian single party government in the last half century.
When laid out like this you really see how deviating and long term the consequences of authoritarianism can be. Stable healthy democracy is a fucking superpower.
I’m Polish. So, if I understand this correctly, we are getting the most out of the EU, and yet still people here are complaining about it. And about Germany.
Luxembourg and Belgium?
Both host import EU institutions. The income they provide for the locals, possibly indirectly, is also seen as a benefit.
Strasbourg in France should also make a dent into France’s contributions then. Would be nice to know how much it would be, without those things calculated in - sure they are?
Is the European Central Bank taken into consideration for Germany?
No clue
Is there some stomach-able raw data?
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Because the presence of the EU institutions this brings a lot of money in the economy
Would be interesting to see this info per capita.
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Poland - Kentucky of EU
I went to Poland and I can 100% say its a fucking shithole. Shouldn’t be in EU at all
I went to Poland last summer and I can only disagree.
I’m Polish. Can confirm, it’s a shit hole. Still better than the US dough.
