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Joined 1 year ago
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Cake day: June 14th, 2023

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  • two_wheel2@lemm.eetoAsklemmy@lemmy.mlWhy are folks so anti-capitalist?
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    1 year ago

    We’re definitely a subset of it! And you could argue that any machinations therein are a part of nature, but then again I also think that if you have a computer running a simulation, while the computer is the substrate the simulation is run on, it’s also a bit separate. One way to think about it is that there isn’t really a “place” in the computer you can look and find the simulation. So too is our society. Nature (us) is its substrate, but you can’t really point to anywhere in nature with any kind of precision and say “ah, there is the society”.


  • two_wheel2@lemm.eetoAsklemmy@lemmy.mlWhy are folks so anti-capitalist?
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    1 year ago

    Your last sentence made me think. It’s not necessarily true that the employees’ benefit does not increase, but what if it didn’t?

    Normally employees gain experience and the money to hopefully move away from their current position, but it’s a great point that capitalism has no response to positions of pure stagnation. I don’t think that the answer is communism, but introducing social systems around those edge cases in the economy is incredibly important.




  • You’re right and me neither, and as much as I don’t want my home address to be public, I’m sure there are people it would be WORSE to have know it than others. US companies acting how they do is unacceptable, but they can at least (if they have scruples) say fuck off to the government assuming we aren’t living in a truly renegade government. The meme here is correct and I think we should hold companies to a higher standard, but acting like every government is equal or the CCP isn’t immediately scarier than the US government doesn’t seem helpful to me.

    I love Chinese people, I love their culture, I grew up there, I do not love their government.





  • You’re right, and it doesn’t to me either, and I feel that it’s wrong, and I wouldn’t go and get a cake made with someone I know does this. I also think that you and I would agree on more than not. I’ll also add that I don’t have a dog in the religion debate here. But I still feel very strongly that in a free society it is their right not not be compelled to write something which directly contradicts their belief. I’ll need to think about this more in general, I might end up changing my mind on it, but at least for right now the right to not have to say something you don’t believe feels important to me. Let me ask you this, if an atheist baker were asked to write “Jesus is Lord” on a cake and said no, would you take issue with that? I wouldn’t; I’d argue that is a very clean first amendment right, and an important part of living in a liberal society. I also would go as far as to say that isn’t even intolerance from the atheist, it’s simply them believing something.

    To your second point, while I agree that a business owner should not discriminate against a particular demographic, I’m not sure I’d go all out on any time someone says this they’re discriminating. Every religion and value system has prohibitions, and few of them are aligned. It’s possible to respectfully decline to do something as it directly contradicts your beliefs. Now if your beliefs are discriminatory, that’s a different and more complex question entirely. I’m not sure what to think about that case.


  • Yeah sorry, a couple of people sound like they think I meant that, I must not have articulated myself well.

    If this decision protects that cake maker from doing so, then I would worry about it. Imagining EVERY cake were the same, obviously that would be wrong. I’m just trying to say that it seems like the law has more to do with the content of the message. If a couple wanted a cake saying “only gay sex” or something similarly funny, or a straight couple wanted a cake saying “all gays are bad”, I would feel that while we don’t need to be tolerant of the former business person, or the latter client, neither business person should be compelled to write the message on the cake. In the former case, they should be compelled to make a blank or similar cake with no message, simply not compelled to write the message.

    Again, I’m not a legal expert so if I’m misreading the decision, that’s a different story.


  • The question THIS LAW interacts with is the CONTENT of the message. If you’re providing tables for a wedding this law wouldn’t protect you. If you were asked to write something specific for the wedding and the content of the request is antithetical to your beliefs, this law would protect you, if you could show that. Not a lawyer, but that’s how I read it.

    Now. Is it “right” to do so? I would say in absolutely no universe. It’s morally wrong, it undermines our liberal society, and I have no tolerance for it. My point is that this particular law isn’t about whether someone is a Christian, their race, or sexuality. This decision wouldn’t protect me from writing some basic software for a nazi (others might) but it DOES protect me from building a website supporting them, or writing prose related to nazism, or anything else which would be CLEARLY against what I believe. Please DON’T read that I’m saying that being a nazi is the same as being homosexual, it isn’t, I’m not, fuck nazis.

    To get back to your question: as I read this decision, a cake maker could potentially be compelled to make a cake for an interracial couple, but they might not be compelled to make a cake with something like “interracial is the only way to go”



  • This is the best take I’ve seen in this thread so far. It’s an issue of compelled speech, not of this or that demographic or ideology of the client or service. I’m not trying to dog whistle here, I hate that any business would exercise this in a hateful way, but another example of the reverse would be compelling a black-owned bakery to write an awful racist message on a cake. Obviously no person should be compelled to say what they don’t believe, regardless of the level of asshattery they dabble in.