- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
For the first time in 28 years of JD Power’s car owner survey, there is a consecutive year-over-year decline in satisfaction, with most of the ire directed toward in-car infotainment.
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Shocking. They’ve been trying to make the car a second living room, and in doing so sacrifice the driving experience by foregoing buttons, levers, and switches for capacitive surfaces and touchscreens.
The turn signal on the Tesla Yoke is shocking to me. It screams of tech boys adding “cool things” before thinking about whether or not it’s useful.
Then there’s all the anti-consumer practises. Buy a car, but don’t own it. Yes we shipped it with heated seats, which you obviously paid for, but to use them you’ll have to pay a monthly fee. And no, you’ll still pay for all the energy used, that’s not on us. But hey we’re actually giving you a better deal on it!
It’s all BS.
Then there’s all the anti-consumer practises. Buy a car, but don’t own it. Yes we shipped it with heated seats, which you obviously paid for, but to use them you’ll have to pay a monthly fee.
“Existence as a subscription service” should’ve been nipped in the bud long before automakers worked up the nerve to pull this nonsense but I’m afraid it’s now too late. We’re all just sentient ATMs being bled dry every month by corporations that feel entitled to our money and have no interest in doing anything to actually earn it.
I just learned that higher-end Kia vehicles don’t have wireless CarPlay but the cheaper, smaller models do. It has something to do with the built-in navigation those models come with… which I would happily ditch to not have to be tethered to the car with crappy Apple iPhone wires. Love the vehicle but the head unit software is terrible. They can’t get the most basic things right because they’re too busy giving us pointless stuff we didn’t ask for.
So my 2023 Limited trim Hyundai Elantra is the same way. (And correct me if I’m wrong but I’m pretty sure KIA and Hyundai are more or else ‘the same’ at this point? Made by the same people or something?)
I ended up getting one of these: AAWireless 2023 - Wireless Android Auto Dongle - https://a.co/d/hXeBrWT
It’s not ideal but at least it elimates some of the wire mess and my phone itself isn’t physically tethered any where.
Works pretty solid for me so far.
My solution is for Android but surely there’s something similar for iPhone out there too?
Shouldn’t have to jump through hoops for this, especially for higher end models but here we are…
As someone who drives a higher-end Kia SUV, and sells them, this is untrue. Off the top of my head without looking, I’m fairly positive the ONLY model to not get wireless is the Rio. Even then I think it may still get it.
So much wrong in your post. My ‘22 Stinger GT2 doesn’t have wireless AA or CarPlay. It absolutely does have to do with the built in GPS as the newer, less expensive vehicles/trims WITHOUT built in GPS allow wireless AA and CarPlay. Redline Reviews has mentioned this in his YouTube videos of KIA/Hyundai products, too. It is some kind of dispute between the maker of the maps for the factory GPS, KIA/Hyundai and Google/Apple. I have read numerous times that the hardware is present but it is blocked software side.
Aside from that, if you truly are selling these vehicles you need to brush up on the tech side.
My gf’s Subaru makes me literally yell. No touch screen, but my god, all the controls are identical pushbuttons, pale grey symbols or tiny letters on silver. You have to squint at a pale LED readout to figure out what the HVAC is doing. Nothing is intuitive.
Meanwhile, in my 2002 Spyder and 2004 F-150, twist knobs, receive joy.
I love my subaru, but I do have everything on a stupid touch screen. I would have gone in that 2022 Forester that still had a bunch of real buttons, but it didn’t come with a turbo option so I went with the Outback where everything was integrated. Even then the Android auto experience could definitely be better.
Tesla: Park button and cruise control button, better combine them.v
Touch screens in cars are stupid: you need to take your eyes off the road to use them. Buttons and knobs, once you have learned them, can be operated by touch and maybe a quick flick of your eyes.
Love my Mazda3 for saying “no” to touchscreens. The knob is great!
Mazda has the best system for infotainment systems. I own 2 Mazdas and a Toyota. Every time I get in the Toyota I hate that I have to touch the screen for everything.
Mazdas also focus on providing the best driving experience for the actual driving part. Their infotainment is actually kind of mediocre compared to others, but I don’t care about that because I just need CarPlay and my phone does the rest.
I agree. I only need a screen that is capable of CarPlay and lots of physical buttons, which Mazda has. Then I want the rest of the car to be a blast to drive, which Mazda is known for and definitely delivers on. I’m a Mazda fanboy and will keep buying them unless they decide to move away from the driver experience.
We’re looking for a vehicle and the Mazda design language really hits above the price point. The CX-90 is just beautiful with the fabric layer on the dashboard. Very impressed with it.
I’ve owned probably 15 vehicles. No Mazdas. We just went from a 2012 highlander limited to a 2019 cx-9 GT with 25k mi for around 35k.
Man, what a nice ass car. I honestly never knew. Tons of features and thoughtful details. Dollar to value we’re very happy with it.
Might turn it in for a cx-90 in a few years.
Our problem is we’re cheap because we hate being indebted to someone/thing and we do want to actually retire so most of our money goes to retirement accounts. That makes actually buying a nicer vehicle trying. I just can’t stomach the prices these days. 🤮
Mazda has been killing it the last 5-7 years on their premium interiors without the premium price. That was until the CX-90 came along. Don’t get me wrong, I love it but it’s way too much for what it is in my opinion. I got a 2019 CX-5 signature (fully loaded, top trim) for 35k brand new and it has some features the CX-90 lacks without paying for it’s top trim at 60k.
With that said, I’m sure it’s still one of the most fun 3-row SUV’s to drive. Mazda won’t sacrifice drivability for nothing.
Same. If I need to get a bigger car, the CX-50 always has me turning my head. But I want to keep my little hatchback for as long as I can.
I love the knob but hate that in 2021 they ‘upgraded’ the auto start to being in an app.
Not having a touch screen was a pretty sizeable component of my decision making process when I bought my 3.
My opinion is that touch screens should be for passengers only. Display screens are fine, but if physical buttons are so unacceptable, then we need voice control that actually works.
Also, I’m surprised no one has started a company to retrofit buttons and switches into modern cars. Whatever kind of headache that would be to design and install, I’d like to see it work.
A lot of these cars are starting to get massive touch screens too. I’m looking at buying a Prius and several of the trims have a 12 inch touch screen. Why would I ever need that as a driver? Why would I ever possibly want that? Pedestrian and cyclist deaths keep skyrocketing and we continue to out these massive screens in cars that in many cases can’t be turned off. Lawmakers really need to make auto manufacturers responsible for the part they are playing in enabling distracted driving.
And then they double as GPS, but they’re installed so low that you can’t see the GPS out of the corner of your eye, and therefore need to look away from the road. Great design!
I see “but it does gps!” As an excuse in favor of the oversized screens. But a heads up display, reading aloud turn by turn directions, or even a set of lights to indicate where you should go would do the same thing better
And guess what? I navigate with my Android and don’t even have to SEE the screen. “In a quarter mile turn left on Bright Screen Road.”
They objectively make night driving significantly worse. Why would I want a big, bright, light pointed directly at my face while I’m driving?
Sure, but I don’t always have a passenger in my car and want to listen to the radio
I think the driver should definitely have radio controls, just not through a touch screen. Passenger touch screens should be for their entertainment and their own heating/cooling settings. I think the passenger controls should have nothing to do with the way the car drives and handles, or headlights, wipers, anything like that.
Enhance S3XY Buttons would like to have a word.
And I’d like to have a word with them… About how good their idea is!
That’s a great start. I am dreaming of some kind of a full dashboard and center console replacement. While I’m at it, I may as well dream of having the money to afford a car that would be new enough to need such an upgrade plus be able to afford the upgrade itself.
My 09 focus actually had a fantastic voice control. Never seen anything nearly as intuitive or operational.
My current vehicle is 7 years newer and I don’t even know what the voice button does.
and let’s not forget the back and forth rocking game you play anytime you try to push a touchscreen when the road is not perfectly flat
I don’t know who the hell thought that a touch screen only system was reasonable for a motor vehicle, but they can go get fucked.
Elon Musk?
He does appear to be fucking himself. Almost daily now. Lol
Uh oh, looks like you pissed off a single Musk fan boy.
The cost savings is a supply chain wet dream.
It feels like San Francisco’s fault. Apple and tesla-esque design language spreading like a plague because it’s cheap to manufacture and people think it’s trendy.
I bought a 2023 Subaru outback. Great car, only quibbles are the CVT instead of a traditional Auto or manual for longevity reasons, and most of my controls are on a big old touch screen. The issue is that everything is routed through it, and it lagggggggs.
My civic has a CVT and for the most part its OK. But sometimes when you’re on a highway, and if you have to brake hard… that lag time on hitting the gas again can sometimes feel like forever. And pretty scary.
I just rolled over 100k miles last week on my CVT. If CVTs are dying young, it isn’t a problem with the CVT, it’s a problem with the manufacturer.
What’s the quibble with CVT? From what I’ve heard they last forever
All I want is solid gps and Bluetooth.
I don’t need a fucking dominos app. Or to take my car to the dealer so my AC works again because of a fucking update
I purposely bought the base dash on my Focus ST. Screen is smaller than a phone like 4 inches at most, has no apps. It Bluetooth syncs my phone for music and calls. There’s no touchscreen, all interactions are dedicated knobs and buttons.
For GPS I just use my phone and audio directions, my smart watch has the upcoming direction as well. If I really don’t know where I’m going I have a dash mount for my phone if I need it. But that’s not often.
It’s great honestly and the dash doesn’t blind me driving at night.
I was also looking at a Mazda before I got this car and their dash is absolutely horrendous. It’s like they just took a Alibaba knock off iPad and welded it on top of the dash. It’s literally in your view of the road causing a small blind spot.
My 2015 Tacoma has a great gps, but I cannot find a way to update the map, it is 7 years out of date.
My 2012 Mazda uses a SD card for the maps and last I looked it was over $100 for updates. I wouldn’t buy a car without carplay or android auto these days.
My aunt’s 2017 Mazda didn’t have my house in the GPS. It was built in 2011.
Mine has an SD card as well, still unable to find a way to update them. At this point i am willing to pay for it
Oh it’s simple. Just run a USB cable from your pc to the car’s tailpipe.
Wait until you see what it takes to do so! I had an OEM nav unit in one of my cars, and the map update is sold on a DVD (!) and costs something like $400. I’m going to go with… no. (And yes, I checked to see if an .iso was available on any pirate sources; it wasn’t.) I’ll just run Google Maps or an OpenStreetMap client on my phone, thanks.
I have yet to find a way to update/update the system, even paying for it.
We are using a Garmin in our Mitsubishi ASX rather than the built-in navi, probably a custom TomTom. Bluetooth is largely useless and buggy.
I would have bought a used Lada if it was just for me.
If it’s an EV I’d much prefer an open source platform. No such things, so far.
I’m with the people who miss 3.5mm jacks on phones on this one. Until there’s an open, portable standard between iPhone, android, and physical media that I own, I’m not buying ur dumb infotainment system. I’ll go on eBay and buy a physical Garmin GPS before I learn what “google automotive services” is
The worst part is the inability to swap out the head unit now because everything is now integrated.
I just finished repairing my dads old head unit because even though he had a new unit from audi, it needed go to the dealer for pairing. You used to be able to do it over the phone with them for free but now you have to bring it in and pay.
I get that they have a code to deter radio theft but charging for something you used to do over a free hotline is BS. It could even be one or the other, like I’d pay to use the hotline or bring the car into the dealer if it was free but not bring it in AND pay.
The car company requiring you to pay them to change your hardware is theft.
Modern vehicles are an absolute nightmare from a right to repair viewpoint. Honestly surprised none of them have pulled a John Deere yet and just started bricking people’s vehicles.
As someone working in the industry I dislike it as well. Many of the features have some really good usecases but the problem is just that they’re enabled/available for every user even if most people only use a small subset of features so the settings/interface gets so cluttered.
In my opinion though, the move away from physical interfaces towards touchscreens is way worse than the clutter.
When a physical button is buried under a menu, it ceases to become a feature and instead becomes a chore. Rear ac on / off should always be a dedicated button if not knob.
I wouldn’t mind voice activation however.
Wife and I had a car’s head gasket go and total the engine. We’re now looking at vehicles. Strongly like the Honda Pilot, in part, because it still has physical buttons for the temp controls. The last car was all touchscreen.
Now this is one of the features I want a button or knob for. Go ahead and bury all the advanced features in touchscreen menus but please don’t do that for the basic things I regularly use while driving like temperature, fan, volume, and seek.
Car manufacturers need to realize that people already have a touchscreen that has a GPS, podcasts, music, and text messaging service in their pockets 24/7. Best option would be to make built in phone holders that are plugged in via USB C and connect to the sound system. Voila.
Stuff like this makes me very glad to own my 2015 Nissan Altima. I get occasionally let down by its somewhat lackluster engine and CVT transmission, but it cuts all the crap with infotainment bloatware in the dashboard and how it works. The only screen in my car is a small black strip that can only display text as most cars used to have. All you do is plug in your phone to the aux cord and use your phone as the touchscreen it was made to be, no need for another one. Physical buttons galore.
Phone holders need to be a thing. Maybe car manufacturers aren’t confident the general sizes of today’s phones won’t last long.
Some people also use tablets and even foldable phones
Or for those without capability to do aux cables, there are cheap Bluetooth receivers that connect to your car radio.
Yes. And most modern phones nowadays let you play music through the charging port aswell
I absolutely adore my Subaru CVT. The only things I dislike about it are how it has a bunch of fake crap to act more like a manual transmission.
I want my car to always be at peak power band when I stomp the pedal, CVT can do that and other transmissions can’t.
Yes. Faking manual/geared transmission doesn’t actually give you the power of either of those, it’s just to ease people into a new gearless car.
I prefer manual over all, but CVT fixed the issue classic automatic transmission had of limiting the power you can exert. I think if manufacturers can improve the heat problem of the CVT belts and overall reliability then it may become a new standard that even enthusiasts wouldn’t mind.
Less tactile controls made me choose a 2014 over 2015 Honda Accord when I bought my car a few years back, and I’m very happy with it! Can’t imagine having most everything controlled with a touch screen. The only tech I need is Bluetooth and a backup camera. Screw software subscriptions and OTA updates to potentially alter the car I own outright.
I’ve got a 2019 Insight (it’s basically a hybrid-drivetrain with a weird mix of Civic/Accord body/interior).
I think it’s got the perfect mix of touchscreen and tactile. All the environmental controls are the normal buttons and knobs. The screen has a physical volume turn-y knob, and like 25,000 steering wheel buttons.
All the touchscreen stuff is stuff you shouldn’t be doing while moving anyway. That said, Android Auto for Google Maps + Music/Podcast app was an absolute must for me.
All the other car software I straight out ignore with the rare diversion into FM radio when I’m feeling frisky or the fucking bluetooth stack in Honda’s software is being a piece of shit and won’t connect to a modern phone for 10 minutes.
No joke, I walked into vw dealership couple years ago to test drive the ID.3, nearly ready to buy it by end of 2021 (replace my eGolf).
The interior controls and their ergonomics were shockingly bad. Unlit touch strips for volume and temp, touch buttons on steering wheel, mirror adjust switch that freely rotate so you don’t know which mirror is adjusting, only two power window switch to control four windows on driver door, gear shift that’s totally hidden by steering wheel…
Just awful.
Jesus, touch buttons on the steering wheel it’s the most asinine type of control ever, you’ll be activating this by accident all the time.
Maybe if you havea heath condition that makes your hands thrash around uncontrollably, but then you shouldn’t be driving in the first place.
Dude, what’s wrong with you?
He seems to always be like this. I already recognize the username, and not for positive reasons.
Thanks for the heads up. I blocked him, life is too short to waste time with assholes.
Yes, but it’s not the tech I hate, is how bad it’s implemented. I had a Cupra Leon for two years and the infotainment system (relatively comparable to the ID 3, only a different theme installed) crashed more often than I drove the car. Before that I had a Golf 7 and I loved it. Who greenlighted the interior of current gen VWs deserves to be fired and hit with a bag of slugs repeatedly. I’ve been driving a lot of different VWs over the last eight years but the last car was so bad I’ve switched to a completely different manufacturer. And by bad I mean exclusively the infotainment, the car itself was great.
The car as a device to transport one from A to B has been developed to completion. Any car is capable of fulfilling that task. The next stange of developement is that the comfort features in cars are being replaced with a universal control unit: a touchscreen (-computer).
All physical buttons (air condition, radio, etc.) are being phased out and are accessible over the central touchscreen, hidden in menus. This way it is easier to get customers into subscribed services (e.g. for the ability to lock your car remotely or to use the heated seat feature you have to subsribe to this particular service in order to use it).
Also, when features are controlled over a software interface like those touchscreens instead of physical buttons, it it easier to give access to users - or restrict them from it:
IIRC at the beginning of the war in Ukraine, Tesla remotely enabled their cars by allowing free supercharging as a helpful measure to help people to escape from Ukraine. Pretty nice of Tesla, isn’t it? Well yes, in this particular case, but this kind of remote software interference from the manufactor can also work in the other direction. They can easily restrict the functionality of your car. Functions your car still would have if they weren’t controlled remotely.
Cars become a Software-As-A-Service product.
Edit: spelling
This way it is easier to get customers into subscribed services
It’s also just flat out cheaper to remove physical buttons. Remove a handful of buttons and you might save a few dollars per vehicle once you add up the cost of each switch, connector, and associated wiring. That’s huge when you’re producing tens of even hundreds of thousands of vehicles.
They tried getting away with this crap to save a few bucks without passing on the savings but you’re seeing some pushback. VW, for instance, has stated they’ll be migrating some functions back to physical buttons soon.
In addition to my comment I leave this article here:
https://mostlysignssomeportents.tumblr.com/post/723755486547181568/autoenshittification
This article sums up the ongoing enshittification with cars and other devices, backed up with further sources.
My car is at that age where it’s too young for car play and too old for buttons and that’s literally my complaint about it beyond it being a full ICE. I’m baffled that they aren’t just all accepting that letting us use the console as a controller for our phone is just better
This is what I really like about my RAV4: the touchscreen is just for controlling CarPlay/Android Auto and system settings that you don’t change while driving anyway. There are physical controls for everything else, including the radio.
My wife’s Jeep Latitude, on the other hand, is a mess. Things like the seat warmers, heated steering wheel controls, and the climate control vents are only on the touchscreen and it’s super laggy. Trying to change any of that while driving is very risky.
For me, as a car enthusiast, this has been a turning point in my enthusiasm for cars. It has become very easy for me to accept electric vehicles and strive for less car dependency, since the EU mandated driver assistance systems and a bunch of other technology in new vehicles. For American readers: In the US there is an agreement between the NHTSA and car manufacturers to include such technology in all new cars by 2022-09.
I really dislike technology that is made to correct and monitor my behaviour and I am not keen on spending lots of money on a car that is filled with technology I don’t want (accident data recorder, intelligent speed assist, lane keeping assist, etc.). Apart from that, I haven’t seen one vehicle where the driver assistance systems aren’t annoying or even dangerous (e. g. the lane keeping system steering towards a ditch / wall on narrow roads, etc.). And to make matters worse: You can’t permanently turn those systems off, if they don’t work as advertised, as in the EU it is mandatory for such systems to re-activate themselves whenever you start the vehicle and the deactivation has to be a multi-step process (as far as I remember).
Nowadays my transport-related interests are therefore mainly complete streets / 15-minute cities / public transport, cycling, affordable electric cars and classic, non-digital vehicles. I no longer wish to own any expensive modern car(s) and I don’t care much for internal combustion engines anymore. Instead I value cities more that allow me to live car-free and the only vehicles I still want to own are classic ones.
On TikTok I’ll sometimes see some really nice older vehicles that have either been restored or just reeeaalllyyy taken care of and it kind of makes me miss when cars were a lot more simple. Don’t get me wrong, I love my newer car and having some kind of warranty but that won’t last forever
There was a period when cars were almost modular. Each component a discretely independent part. They might not have been exactly plug and play, but they were all super integrated with each other and every piece molded into the dash. If you wanted a stereo, it was single or double din.
Now if I want to replace something I either need to fab up or order some custom trim piece for everything. They’ve covered everything they could in plastic.
