• n2burns@lemmy.ca
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    10 months ago

    That’s not really an answer to my question. “Control” does not get you sovereignty, and neither does “representing the people”. It comes down to governance and international recognition. Mexican cartels control large areas of the country, but no one is arguing they have sovereignty. Similarly, there are many repressive regimes in the world that do not represent their people, but they maintain their sovereignty.

    • cecinestpasunbot@lemmy.ml
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      10 months ago

      Your analogy falls flat because while powerful cartels are rarely looking to supplant state control. Instead they seek state complicity which is a different thing altogether.

      Ansar Allah on the other hand has set up its own governance structures. As I said, most of the populated regions of Yemen are governed under these structures. That’s despite a US backed campaign to bomb and starve them out over most of the last decade.

      If the US doesn’t want to recognize the sovereignty of the Ansar Allah led Yemeni government then the US concept of sovereignty is effectively meaningless.

        • cecinestpasunbot@lemmy.ml
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          10 months ago

          I’m not? The US is using an incoherent notion of sovereignty that just so happens to align with their geopolitical interests. Sorry if that’s a hard truth for you to accept.

      • n2burns@lemmy.ca
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        10 months ago

        Your analogy falls flat because while powerful cartels are rarely looking to supplant state control. Instead they seek state complicity which is a different thing altogether.

        Okay, what about IS? Did they have Sovereignty?

        If the US doesn’t want to recognize the sovereignty of the Ansar Allah led Yemeni government then the US concept of sovereignty is effectively meaningless.

        If you/anyone else thinks sovereignty is meaningless, that’s fine but it’s not what I asked about. My original question was how this is “A breach of sovereignty”? You don’t seem to be arguing why it is a breach of sovereignty.

        • cecinestpasunbot@lemmy.ml
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          10 months ago

          Again that’s a terrible analogy. ISIS was an international insurgency that went so far as to explicitly reject the very concept of modern day nation states. Of course they didn’t deserve to be treated as a sovereign power.

          Conversely Ansar Allah is a domestic organization. It’s commonly referred to as the Houthi movement because it has many leaders who are Houthis, a Yemeni tribe. They rose to power after the previous Yemeni government faced a crisis of legitimacy during the Arab spring.

    • LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net
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      10 months ago

      The issue is that the sovereignty of nation states is a somewhat nonsensical idea that has little to no solid philosophical backing. Nations aren’t living things and shouldn’t have rights in the same way people have. They are imaginary constructs, and the consequences of this are inevitable debates over what is or is not a nation. But there is no clear dividing line or definition—and in this ambiguity, powerful nations are free to recognize or ignore nations as they choose.

      • HobbitFoot @thelemmy.club
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        10 months ago

        I look at it more like this.

        If you treat the Houthis as a non-sovereign entity, they can be attacked freely under international law by the international community as pirates.

        If you treat the Houthis as a sovereign entity, they can be attacked under international law by affected nations as the attacks can be interpreted as an act of war.

        So it doesn’t really matter if they are sovereign or not.

        • n2burns@lemmy.ca
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          10 months ago

          It matters because if the Houthis are a non-sovereign entity, then POTUS can order an attack under prior congressional approvals. However, if they are a Sovereign State, then attacking them would be an act of war, requiring congressional approval.

          • HobbitFoot @thelemmy.club
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            10 months ago

            If the issue is with American law instead of international law, then you need to use the American list of recognized sovereign nations. Does the USA recognize the Houthis as leading a sovereign nation?

      • TigrisMorte@kbin.social
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        10 months ago

        None of which matters as the Houthis committed Acts of War and were idiots not to accept this would be the response when flat out told it would be.

      • n2burns@lemmy.ca
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        10 months ago

        That doesn’t answer my question either. I wasn’t the one who brought up sovereignty, it was the article. It seems to ridiculous to say, this is “A Breach of Yemeni Sovereignty” but no one seems to able to assert the Houthis have sovereignty to start with.