Hundreds of thousands of protesters gathered in central London on Saturday 11 November, calling for a ceasefire in Israel's war against Hamas. Expected to be the biggest demonstration in a single day over the Israel-Palestine conflict to date, the march began at midday, shortly after an Armistice Day service at the Cenotaph. Scuffles broke out between police and far-right groups opposing the march in a number of locations across the capital, including in Chinatown and Westminster.
From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free
Why do right wingers say this chant is antisemitic?
Look at a map! This sentence is at least a provocation, because there is already something else reaching from the river to the sea.
In Germany, it’s common sense that saying this is a no-go. Doesn’t matter which political side you represent.
I did look at a map. Gaza is by the sea, and west bank is by the river. Gaza and west bank will be free, doesn’t make a great slogan. Frome the river to the sea, Palestine will be free, makes a great slogan
How is that antisemitic?
Why not just “palestine will be free”? Why not “Protect palestine”? Why not “Stop killing civilians!”? I’d support all of that. But why adding the highly controversial beginning that can be understood as “let’s take back Israel territory and connect Westback + Gaza” or even “Let’s delete Israel”?
I would not even call it antisemitic… It’s not primarily against the religion. I’d call it “Anti Israel rhetoric”.
I don’t understand what you are trying to achieve here. Chanting something that has a huge potential to be misunderstood and back-paddling afterwards does not help anyone. You talked about the far right… In Germany, that’s exactly their strategy. Saying stuff like “We will hunt politicians” or “In some cases, we’d have to shoot migrants at the border” and when they got the full attention, they back-paddle “Wasn’t meant like that… You misunderstood us”…
There are people in this area (like Hamas) who have the primary goal to eradicate Israel. They support that sentence, but interpret it differently than you and I think, you know that.
IMO, this conflict is too terrible to throw in this sentence that has always been “at least controversial”.
I don’t know why you are getting so defensive and upset. Also not sure why you think I’m trying to achieve something. Is anyone who defends Palestine some sort of shadowy sinister bearded brown Hamas supporter?
Christ, go touch some grass.
The slogan is used by many pro palestinian supporters, and I’m trying understand why so offensive or is this yet another case of culture bullying by pro Israeli zealots.
And your German example makes no sense. Are you comparing people who want an end to the genocide of an entire people to far right German nazis?
Do go out and touch some grass…
Why do you think that? You are sharing your arguments, I’m sharing mine… And I’m even able to listen to other arguments without downvoting them.
What is this question? Did you read this above?
Nice… Sure, I’m the person" who gets upset"… Sorry for sharing arguments with you and trying to explain you why others interpret this sentence differently.
Because they want a reason to be mad.
Because they want to equate zionism and Judaism.
Because they’re attracted to children.
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It’s not “from the river to the sea, murder all Jews”, though, now is it?
Seems a bit of a leap, what you’re saying there?
I never said I used it or made any assumptions. This is how some see its inference, which answers the posters question.
You said “it is”. And it’s still a huge leap to infer that the call for freedom of Palestine would require the mass murder of anyone.
The chant doesn’t say anything about harming anyone, and it doesn’t say that Palestine is/shall be the only territory between the river and the sea.
This whole furore about the chant is devoid of logic.
Pretty pathetic pedantism. You need more things to entertain yourself with my friend.
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It’s not Lebensraum though. Palestinians are literally being oppressed.
Why are you likening the Palestinian struggle for freedom from oppression to the genocidal machinations of the third Reich?
Israel is the settler here, so it’s more like the resistance against Nazi occupation.
OK, well, “all lives matter” doesn’t mean “black lives don’t matter” BUT we all know what they actually mean. It’s called a dogwhistle. “from the river to the season” is also a dogwhistle, because the term comes from Palestinian organizations and people that want to wipe Israel off the map. You COULD just say “one-state” but that doesn’t have the fun wink-wink that a dogwhistle has.
that isn’t what the linked article says lol.
Writing something like this, what has a huge potential to be misunderstood… Something that extremists and normal people can interpret differently… Why exactly is this necessary?
Because it is not enough to simply stop carpet bombing of civilians. If you want to truly stop the violence, that involves eventually giving Palestinians full citizenship and civil rights on the same level as Jews instead of forcing them to live in ghettoes. That’s how a free society works. Until Israel does that there can be no true peace. A separate Palestinian state is not an option because of all the illegal (under international law) Jewish settlements in the west bank making a border impossible to maintain.
Once again, apartheid is itself violence. That’s what the slogan is rallying against
@justsec@lemmy.dbzer0.com
Conflating antizionism and antisemitism is antisemitic, do not make a similar report again.