• nekandro@lemmy.mlOP
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    6 months ago

    France is worried “people” will look at their exploits in Africa more deeply if they don’t.

  • mozz@mbin.grits.dev
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    6 months ago

    You know? Honestly, genocide doesn’t actually exactly fit with what Israel is doing. Mass murder of civilians, starvation, attacks on journalists and aid workers, denial of medical care, theft of people’s homes and theft of their property… they’re doing virtually every type of war crime, now including the use of chemical weapons apparently, but they’re not literally trying to exterminate the Palestinians as a genotype.

    Almost any type of war crime case could have been mounted against them, and it would have been a more solid case at the ICJ. There wouldn’t have been room for all this semantic wiggling in the press over whether it’s actually genocide, or merely mass murder and war criminality.

    It almost makes me think that there was some sort of deliberate effort to bring over-the-top charges that would leave that wiggle room, instead of more conservative charges. Prosecutors will sometimes do this when they want to kill a case without showing any appearance of other than a vigorous prosecution. You bring murder 1 when you can’t prove it, and give the defense something to work with, instead of charging second-degree murder and having a slam dunk.

    I have no reason to think they might have done that, but I do wonder about it.

    • freagle@lemmygrad.ml
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      6 months ago

      You really need to look up the legal definition of genocide. No. I will not provide a link. Put as much effort into research as you put into writing from the perspective of ignorance. I’ll get you started. Genocide is not defined as the intent to exterminate a genotype.

      • mozz@mbin.grits.dev
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        6 months ago

        I’m gonna look past your totally unnecessary hostility and just say I looked it up and you’re 100% right. Trying to eradicate Palestine as a nation is genocide, even if they don’t literally kill all the ethnic Palestinians. And yeah, that undercuts what I was saying a little bit… IDK, maybe you could argue that by couching it in terms that could be debated instead of “simpler” war crimes they were still trying to overcharge the offense, but it’s a lot shakier.

        (Edit: Actually, wait, no. It’s debatable on the world stage whether they’re literally trying to eradicate the nation of Palestine. They can claim that they’re “only reacting to terrorism” or etc. I think that’s bullshit and they are trying to eradicate Palestine, but I still think that charging them with the simple war crimes that no one can with a straight face deny that they’re doing would still be a much stronger case.)

        I think the hostility is especially silly since on this topic I’m obviously on your side and opposed to the slaughter of Palestinians by the Israelis.

        • BartsBigBugBag@lemmy.tf
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          6 months ago

          You don’t have to try to eradicate an entire nation to commit genocide, either. There’s a convention on this thing, you know…

          • mozz@mbin.grits.dev
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            6 months ago

            Are y’all just addicted to treating everyone as an enemy?

            Literally just in the message you’re replying to, I’m saying whoa, you’re right, it is genocide.

            Which is more important to you: Having an ally, or being able to treat someone as an enemy so you can have an excuse to be hostile? Seems like it’s number 2. I’m honestly just perplexed by this reaction. But you know what, sure, we can fight about it if you want. What would you like me to pretend to believe so you have an excuse to yell at me?

            • Sunforged@lemmy.ml
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              6 months ago

              You edited one part of you original post while leaving the rest of your terrible take. Those last two sections are doozies bud.

        • freagle@lemmygrad.ml
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          6 months ago

          Still not got it right:

          https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml

          Article II

          In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

          • Killing members of the group;
          • Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
          • Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
          • Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
          • Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

          Netanyahu literally just said Israel will stretch from the river to the sea. Intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national ethnical group by killing them, causing serious bodily and mental harm to them, deliberately imprisoning them, poisoning them, occupying them, killing them.

          My hostility stems from the fact that you have no excuse for not knowing this at this late stage of the conflict if you’re on the same side of the issue as me. No investigation, no right to speak.

  • AutoTL;DR@lemmings.worldB
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    6 months ago

    This is the best summary I could come up with:


    France on Wednesday became the latest Western country to reject accusations that Israel is committing genocide against Palestinian civilians in Gaza, a charge that was recently brought before a United Nations court in The Hague.

    South Africa has won praise at home and from other countries for challenging what they see as a Western-led global order that is biased toward Israel.

    Israel was founded in the aftermath of the Nazi-led genocide of European Jewry, and Germany has rooted much of its post-Holocaust identity in the idea of supporting the Jewish state.

    France, home to some of Europe’s largest Jewish and Muslim communities, has seen fierce debates over the conflict in Gaza, including within its top diplomatic ranks.

    In November, a dozen French ambassadors in Middle East and North Africa countries expressed unease over Macron’s perceived pro-Israeli stance.

    Mr. Séjourné shot back that “we don’t need any lessons from your party,” as France Unbowed has faced intense criticism for refusing to call Hamas a terrorist group.


    The original article contains 522 words, the summary contains 165 words. Saved 68%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!