Correct.
Palestine should be allowed to exist without needing a Star Wars level rebel terrorist group to rage against Israel’s cruelty.
Fuck Hamas, but they only exist because of Israel.
Now the only question is if we can get that genie back in the bottle if we correct our mistake, stop funding Israel, and let them fade away into dust.
Yes, very much yes. Hamas has signed permanent ceasefires before and followed them until it became clear Israel had no intention of upholding its end of the deal. Basically Hamas is currently rebelling against the blockade. Lift that and the whole Gaza side ends. Of course they’ll just ramp up their activities in the West Bank instead because those people are also being genocided, so something needs to be done there too.
The genie is basically hitting you and begging to be put back in the bottle.
Here is a list of peace offers which would grant the Palestinians a country of their own, they refused all of them
1937 - Peel commission, rejected
1947 - Partition resolution, rejected
2000 - Camp David, rejected
2001 - Taba, rejected. Arafat starts the second intifada and a year later changes his mind.
2008 - Olmert offer, rejected
Hamas have tried to agree to boundaries Despite media attempts to portray it as a new Hamas charter, it is not. The new ‘policy document’ accepts the creation of a Palestinian state in 1967 borders, but still rejects Israel and claims its territory. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-39775103
Here are some other noteworthy peace meeting or proposals from Israel to the rest if the Arab world, which were rejected
1919: Arabs of Palestine refused nominate representatives to the Paris Peace Conference.
1920: San Remo conference decisions, rejected.
1922: League of Nations decisions, rejected.
1937: Peel Commission partition proposal, rejected.
1938: Woodhead partition proposal, rejected
1947: UN General Assembly partition proposal (UNGAR 181), rejected.
1949: Israel’s outstretched hand for peace (UNGAR 194), rejected.
1967: Israel’s outstretched hand for peace (UNSCR 242), rejected.
1978: Begin/Sa’adat peace proposal, rejected (except for Egypt).
1994: Rabin/Hussein peace agreement, rejected by the rest of the Arab League (except for Egypt).
1995: Rabin’s Contour-for-Peace, rejected.
2000: Barak/Clinton peace offer, rejected.
2001: Barak’s offer at Taba, rejected.
2005: Sharon’s peace gesture, withdrawal from Gaza, rejected.
2008: Olmert/Bush peace offer, rejected.
2009 to 2021: Netanyahu’s repeated invitations to peace talks, rejected.
2014: Kerry’s Contour-for-Peace, rejected.
Not gonna link Trump’s imbecilic peace plan as an example.
Here is a list of peace offers
the Palestiniansthe governing body of palestinians offered to Israel -None
You should check before you copy paste, so lemme just:
Everything before 1949: The idea that Israel had a right to Palestinian land is itself wrong. A two-state solution is the most realistic solution now, but before the war it should’ve been one state encompassing all of Palestine. A two-state solution necessarily meant that a number of Palestinians would be condemned to expulsion or a life of apartheid (which both happened and are happening in post-war Israel). And anyway this was more than 70 years ago; almost nobody who remembers that is alive today.
The UN resolutions are things Israel objects to. How do these even belong on a list of peace offers from Israel when Israel actively rejects them (particularly the 1949, since it calls for the right of return of Palestinian refugees).
The 1978 offer from Sadat was Yasser Arafat’s greatest mistake and part of what led Palestine to the current situation, no argument there, but calling it an Israeli offer is disingenuous at best and misinformation at worst.
1994: Bruh negotiations were progressing until Rabin got fucking assassinated by a Zionist terrorist, at a time where the Israeli right was actively calling for his assassination. How you (or well, the guy who wrote this) managed to blame this on Palestine is beyond me.
2000 and 2001 (they’re the same thing): The then-Israeli foreign affairs minister stated he wouldn’t have accepted the offer if he were in Arafat’s place. It was that bad.
The Olmert offer was mostly behind closed doors so nobody actually knows what was going on (both sides blame each others for not following up on negotiations), but from what we do know the offer included keeping an unacceptably large part of the West Bank (about 10% by the Palestinian calculation).
Are you seriously buying Netenyahu wanting peace? The guy who supports settlements and goes on and on about how a Palestinian state must not be allowed to exist? LMFAO. Give me an example of one of those offers, if you will.
2014: The American envoy stated that the blame for the failure of the negotiations (not an offer, since Israel didn’t actually offer anything) lied squarely on Israel, and specifically Netenyahu. That’s how uncooperative Israel was.
And about Palestinian offers: How do you expect Palestinians to offer peace? “We want peace with these terms” “No”. It’s Israel who holds all the power; they’re the only ones who can offer peace.
So with that, if anyone was actually buying this shit, this is why this is complete and utter nonsense.
Did you just try to disprove everything shirtly after and before ww2 as “well uhm the land isnt theirs tho”?
Did you fail highschool?
And the occupation only happened because of several wars of aggression against Israel.
And? Collective punishment is a warcrime.
Rebelling against a blockade by slaughtering civilians is still awful and terribly misguided though. It’s hard to see how someone who exclusively wants to fight for freedom and fair conditions would ever consider that an acceptable idea.
Rebelling against a blockade by slaughtering civilians is still awful abd terribly misguided though.
Yeah, true enough, but oppression breeds extremism and Gazans (and West Bankers) have seen a lot of oppression. It’s not necessarily rational, but yeah, when your already horrible life is destroyed because an Israeli airstrike bombed your house and killed your family, most people will be out for blood. If Palestinians get freedom, Hamas and similar organizations will probably be reduced to fringe organizations instead of resistance movements with large amounts of public support. We’ve seen it in the Troubles.
Very true. Fortunately, that is what Israel is also espousing. They don’t want to rule it after the war. That’s good. Not much else that they’re doing is good, but that is.
Hamas, however, sure does want to rule it after the war.
They don’t want to rule it after the war.
They are military occupying it, though, and are considering doing more than that.
Of course. But they have outright stated that they don’t want to manage it after the war has ended.
For now. There’s no way they won’t give it the West Bank treatment. Remember that these are the same people who had to be removed at gunpoint from Gaza in 2005.
🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸 51st state, FUCK YEAH. 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Or how about we give it to Russia in exchange for Crimea and rest of Ukraine’s things.
Or give it to the Inuits? They might like a little warmer environment.
Move whole of Brussels (landmass included) there, making it the new EU headquarters?
Make it the first country run completely by AI? (seriously speaking, this would probably work way better than what has been tried before)
ENDLESS POSSIBILITIES
Bro.
Sounds like you have decent thoughts.
Why are you a cunt?
Did reddit hurt you?
Changing the guards of a prison, doesn’t make it less a prison. There needs to be economic trade, economic development, a path to prosperity for people to believe in so they stop investing in the past.
As long as Gaza is entirely surrounded by Israel or countries doing Israels bidding, it will remain a prison, unless Israel goes through serious reform and atops being a brutal opressive regime.
For that to happen all illegal settlements would need to be dismantled though.
Or we need the formation af a new state that includes all territories, gives equal rights to arabs and jews and returns as much land as possible to displaced palestinians as well as compensates them properly. Also all terrirorists, that means also all settler terrorists need to be tried and convicted for their atrocities. For that i think it would be best do these trials at the ICC and provide prison facilities in Europe for the pre trial and post trial imprisonment of terrorists.
If Palestinians are given a real perspective and some justice i think it could work out. It would require the current terrorists and corrupt criminals in both governments to be removed from power though. So Bibi and Abbas will fight it tooth and nails.
As an intermediate step we would probably need a new UN mandate and lots of pressure to make Israels apartheid government step down.
As long as Gaza is entirely surrounded by Israel or countries doing Israels bidding, it will remain a prison, unless Israel goes through serious reform and atops being a brutal opressive regime.
This is only true if you agree with the opposite as well: As long as Israel is entirely surrounded by Arab League or countries doing their bidding, it will remain a fortress under siege, unless the Arab world goes through serious reform and atops being brutal opressive regimes.
Otherwise, you’re a hypocrite.
You do realize that Israel has access to the Mediterranian and Egypt is factually an ally of Israel since decades now? Also Israel has functional airports. Israel has free access to move goods by air, sea and partially by land and for people to travel by air, land and sea. I find Israeli products in supermarkets in Europe, from household appliances to produce.
I fail to see, what point you are trying to make. The situation in Israel is nothing like the situation in Gaza.
Ah yes Egypt, Israel’s best friend! Just like Pakistan and India, Greece and Turkey or Argentina and UK. Just because they signed a peace deal, it doesn’t mean they are allies. The following day, after the Hamas attacks, an Egyptian police officer shot at Israeli tourists in Alexandria and killed two Israelis and their Egyptian guide. Anti-Semitism is rife in the region.
Just because Israelis can fly or use the ports, doesn’t mean that they are not under constant dread - my analysis still stands.
The day Israel declared independence Egypt, Syria, Transjordan, Iraq, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Yemen and volunteer corps from the Arab League (“Holy war army” and “Arab libertarian army” which had an insignia of the star of David with a dagger piercing it) attacked. This was fresh after Palestinian leaders met with Hitler in 1941 and the holocaust. They also saw that all the other neighbouring countries that declared independence in the region, including the ones from historical Palestine who took land from the Palestinian people, like Lebanon, Syria and Transjordan never got attacked or criticised. From Israel’s point of view it was because they are Jews and the Arabs want another holocaust.
I would love to see the settlements in the West Bank dissolved, but it will never happen while the Arab (and Persian) world is still very much antisemitic and wants all the Israelis dead or “gone”. The West Bank and Golan Heights offer strategic depth and security to Israel, and they will never leave. And they are willing to become the next North Korea if they have to, but at least they will be alive.
Now you don’t have to agree with any of this. But those are “facts” for the Israelis. For them it’s an existential crisis. The only way to reform Israel is also to reform the Arab world. Otherwise it’s just a race to the bottom - both sides will elect more and more extremists.
Just because they signed a peace deal, it doesn’t mean they are allies
No it doesnt. It is more the fact, that Egypt receives generous military aid from the US for continued cooperation and works together with Israel on many issues, such as control of the Rafah crossing into Gaza.
The following day, after the Hamas attacks, an Egyptian police officer shot at Israeli tourists in Alexandria and killed two Israelis and their Egyptian guide
And German policemen regularly are caught making “jokes” about the holocaust, celebrating Hitlers birthday and other typical Nazi shit. Still Germany as a state considers itself an ally of Israel and works together with Israel as closely as possible.
This was fresh after Palestinian leaders met with Hitler in 1941
So 75 years ago. Again taking Germany as an example, by this logic mere six years ago, Germany was practically still Hitler.
Now you don’t have to agree with any of this. But those are “facts” for the Israelis. For them it’s an existential crisis. The only way to reform Israel is also to reform the Arab world. Otherwise it’s just a race to the bottom - both sides will elect more and more extremists.
Many Arab countries including Saudi Arabia have been looking to strengthen ties with Israel recently. Before Yitzhak Rabin was murdered in 1995 by a member of the same extremist-right ideology that is now governing Israel, there was great progress made towards finding a peaceful solution. It was the same right wing extremism, stemming from Israel that sabotaged a peaceful solution back than and continues to sabotage a peaceful solution now in favor of more violence and more crimes against the Palestinians.
And to show just how fucked in the head Likud was back then and is today even more so, they depicted Rabin as Hitler in their protests against the Oslo accords. Israel has the power to bring peace, if they had any interest. But they choose to let nationalists and fascists govern and commit the most heinous crimes.
100%. A upvote is simply not enough!
